Author Topic: Blackhawk Down (Read 1741 times)

Udie at Work · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2002, 09:14:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair
I saw the coverage on CNN eagler. Some dude was coming out of the theater and said "If the Americans come back again, we will defeat them again". I kinda chuckled. They don't teach these guys much math huh? Lesee, 500 of us dead, 18 Americans dead, Somali Victory! Yep, we pulled out, which was another defeat for them. Now they get to peck for crumbs again. But they defeated the US!

Poor ignorant people.

At first this really pissed me off BAD! I was foaming at the mouth and everything. Every Somali I've seen interviewed thinks they kicked our tulips bigtime. Those poor ignorant bastards. After I got to thinking about it I was no longer angry at them. Look at the filth they call home. Ok you won that "war" but what did you win? Them dudes are stuck in that hell hole of a 1000 yr behind the times country. Let them be happy thinking they beat us, that's the only thing they have to be happy about.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2002, 09:18:06 AM »

Actually its more like over 1000 somalis dead hblair!

Think of it a 50/1 to K/D ratio in real life with no practice runs no reset key 50/1 K/D on the first try out. Those guys are simply amazing. Plus they were in the middle of enemy territory and outnumberd by god knows whatr odds. Simply amazing.
Anyone who says it was a deafeat is simply an idiot and orobably has alterior motives. The defeat came two weeks later, only the battle didnt take place in Mogadishu, we lost in Washington!

Swoop · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2002, 09:23:15 AM »

I work with a Somali.

Well, he's actually a Somalilander, not a Somali, but seeing as Somaliland isnt recognised as a country by anyone he's lumped into the same boat as the rest of them.......

He wont watch the film. He says he refuses to be reminded of those times. If my entire family had been gunned down at the dinner table by Somali militants in the space of 10 seconds I guess I might feel the same.

However, from his point of view the Americans ran away and abandoned them as soon as they got a bloody nose. After Clinton pulled out the US forces, things got really bad for Somalilanders.........so he left the country.....in a hurry. Dont ask this mans opinion of the US military if ya dont want a very heated discussion.......

So.......not all of these Somali's are the bloodthirsty maniacs we think they are.......just most of em.

P.S. Bloody good film though.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #18 on:** January 24, 2002, 09:41:40 AM »

The US soldiers are fine, the leadership at the was was lacking. Clinton was a gutless sissy.

Eagler · « **Reply #19 on:** January 24, 2002, 09:52:37 AM »

hunting around trying to find the info about the movie director/studio having to cut the bit in the credits from the movie blaming the Clinton Admin for the mess, I found this site:

http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/graphics.asp

very informative, still looking for the other ...

hblair · « **Reply #20 on:** January 24, 2002, 10:08:59 AM »

It was an awkward situation to be sure. Those conservatives who don't want the US to be world policemen, but yet criticize Clinton for pulling out. Look at this situation hard. The US military was not only being world policemen, but world social workers as well. If Clinton would have left the military in Somalia, he would have taken heat from the right for using the military as world policemen. As it is now, he takes it from the right for not having resolve. Don't getme wrong, I'm pretty conservative myself, but isn't it possible he did the right thing in this case? Just think if we'd have stayed there and gotten into other big firefights, killing tens of thousands of Somalis. Even though they were hostiles, it prolly wouldn't look too good to the world community, who already look at us as Imperialists. Clinton may have made a sound decision, I don't know. I know when you look at it from the Rangers view it doesn't look right.

Just another angle to think about.

Eagler · « **Reply #21 on:** January 24, 2002, 10:43:24 AM »

I think if it wouldn't have gotten ugly, we'd still be there...

Wasn't it exactly this that caused his pull out, the polls were swinging against him, God forbid can't do anything that would have lowered public opinion of our pollmiester pres.

If we were similiarly trounced in Bosnia, Haiti, think we'd stuck it out?

gutless, make a stand and stick it out...or don't get into it in the first place.

Kratzer · « **Reply #22 on:** January 24, 2002, 11:24:46 AM »

The problem is that by pulling out, it sends a message to the world that all you have to do if you want America out of your country is to kill a few Americans. Hopefully recent events will steel the country with a bit more resolve to back the missions we undertake, even if they get a little bit hairy. Even if mistakes are made, there are broader implications than the loss of a few lives, and as painful as it might be sometimes, at times we need to stick it out.

And, of course, have a much better idea what we are getting into before we get involved in the first place.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2002, 12:02:33 PM »

Thats the problem, Osama took our withdarawal from Somalia after a handful of casualties as a sign of weakness. My feeling is that if you kill Americans that you should get 100 times as many back at you with alll their weapons trying to kill you. The message should be dont kill americans. The "world policeman" problem should be sorted out before going in, after that we dedicate men money material and lives to the mission. And we allow the military to kill people, being "perfectly blunt" as Rumsfeled so eloquently put.

Udie at Work · « **Reply #24 on:** January 24, 2002, 01:22:20 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Eagler
I think if it wouldn't have gotten ugly, we'd still be there...

Wasn't it exactly this that caused his pull out, the polls were swinging against him, God forbid can't do anything that would have lowered public opinion of our pollmiester pres.

If we were similiarly trounced in Bosnia, Haiti, think we'd stuck it out?

gutless, make a stand and stick it out...or don't get into it in the first place.

Actually didn't he pull us out of haiti as soon as they started attacking US servicemen? My memory is fuzzy on this, but I think I saw something on tv just the other night that talked about this, it was some show on Blackhawk Down that went on a pretty good Clinton bashing session.

fdiron · « **Reply #25 on:** January 24, 2002, 02:02:22 PM »

One of the Delta soldiers who helped make the movie said the movie should not be considered a documentary. I have not seen Somali death estimates higher than 500, with 1000+ wounded. I have read the book and was greatly dissappointed with the night fighting scene in the movie. Also, why in the world would "Grimes" (supposed to be stebbins, but stebbins is in jail right now) bring a coffee grinder into combat with him???? I think the movie is good for entertainment value, but it differs from the book on many many points.

Kratzer · « **Reply #26 on:** January 24, 2002, 03:13:26 PM »

Dude, he didn't BRING the coffee grinder with him - he found it in the house they were in.

And Stebbins is in jail? Is he the one of Task Force Ranger that I heard about who was convicted of child molestation? I had thought that was one of the Delta operatives. I did wonder why they changed his name...

There were some definite differences between the book and the movie, but overall I think the movie captured the feeling of the book, and followed the main events well enough to be a good approximation of what really happened. I certainly recommend that anyone who goes to the movie read the book as well.

Animal · « **Reply #27 on:** January 24, 2002, 04:02:00 PM »

Grimes = Stebbings.

Yes, he was convicted of child molestation.

Kratzer · « **Reply #28 on:** January 24, 2002, 05:00:12 PM »

Well, I can see why they changed the name then.

Check my post further up this thread for a link to the article that made it sound like it was a Delta operative who was convicted.

Odd. And sad.

Thrawn · « **Reply #29 on:** January 24, 2002, 05:26:16 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
... and the animals cheered

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I couldn't believe my ears at all the women I heard whispering "kill him" All the cheers kind of tripped me out a bit, people were honestly enjoying seeing them die. Never saw that before 9/11.

Which animals are those?