Rolling plane set or Differentiated fields?

[2Late4U]

Can we get one or the other PLEASE


I personally like both idea, but think the rolling plane set may cause too much whining from some of the more vocal crowd.


Instead of that, how about field specific limitations based on size:

LARGE  fields get all aircraft

MEDIUM  fields get only midwar and earlier planes

SMALL  fields get only early war planes



This way we get some use out of the full plane set, and we add a tactical spin to field size beyond the number of hangers.

[J_A_B]

How about doing an RPS in the CT.       "Realistic" planesets don't belong in an arena where the war is between chess-piece countries.

J_A_B

[Vortex]

I'd be happy if someone would just enable all the planes at the 3 furball bases in the Dueling arena. That itself would provide sufficient change for me from the MA.

Rolling planeset is fine too, although I'd really like to see it put in place in smaller terrain if it was going to be an arena that sat alongside the MA. Something about 1/4 the size of what is being used now would be about right.

Vortex

[2Late4U]

Originally posted by J_A_B
How about doing an RPS in the CT.       "Realistic" planesets don't belong in an arena where the war is between chess-piece countries.

Who's talking about adding realism to the MA???  Im talking about getting a better mix of aircraft.   I'm convinced Im the only person who flies the IL-2 with any regularity....and I kick arse in it too:D

[J_A_B]

What's wrong with the current mix of aircraft?   Nobody's stopping you from flying that IL-2 any time you want from any base you want, so why do you want to stop me from flying MY favorite plane where/when I want?

Besides, you don't need to take away the late-war stuff to make the earlier planes viable, the Spit 5's high usage proves that.

J_A_B

[2Late4U]

There is nothing "wrong" with the current MA plane mix, but there is much lacking.  At least 50% of all the available planes are used so infrequently that when I see them it sticks out as an event.  How many Hurricanes do you see, how many 202/205's, what about Ki-61, or the F4U-1...and others.  Sure I see them occasionally and sure there are those who fly them, but the arena is full of N1k2, F4U, La7 and Spits.

I'm not saying its bad, I just think it could be much better.  With the new early war planes in the next version, it will be even more clear that pilots need more incentive to fly some of the planes down low on the perfomance scale

[J_A_B]

But....why push people into planes they might not want to fly?

Give them incentive, yes--things such as very high ENY value for outclassed planes is perfect.   I am the first to admit that the pilot who flies as a disadvantage deserves a bit more reward (in the form of extra perk points) to make up for it.  The reward should justify the investment.  I would go so far as to say that if a plane shoots down one it totally outclasses--say if I'm in a P-51D and I shoot down a goonie--it shouldn't get any perks at all.  There's really no effort involved in shooting a helpless target that can't even shoot back.

However, there are those of us--such as myself--who have a particular favorite ride and we literally pay for AH with the intention of flying that plane--and so regulating that plane out of common usage would in essence destroy the game for people such as myself.  Then there are casual players who fly "Easy"planes like the N1K2 and Spit 9, who have neither the time nor the desire to go about learning a new plane just because some other people want to see more Ki-61's and 109F4's.  While I understand your desire to see the less-used aircraft more often, why should those of us who are content with the game have to suffer for it?

Another problem is an RPS or arena-wide perking still fails to truly equalize plane usage.  The difference is that instead of LA7's and P-51's and Spit 9's seeing the most use, you end up with 190A5's and 109F4's and Spit 5's dominating the scene.  For any planeset/timeframe there's going to be a few "best" planes.  (Actually, looking at the Spit 5's current popularity in an arena full of late-war hotrods, I shudder to think of how common it would become if all it had to contend with was 109F's and Mc 202's).

Or you can take the WW2OL approach and limit the spawn numbers of the "good" planes.  Then it is only a matter of luck whether you get a "good" ride or a "bad" one.  The downside this is people are paying to have fun, not to be placed at an automatic disadvantage just because all the "good" planes were used up when they logged on.

2Late4U, you are being genuinely civil and seem to care about others opinions, so I am trying to be civil in return.  Too many people (including myself at times) rant on these BB's without a bit of regard for others feelings.  So although I might not agree with your proposal, I commend your presentation of it.


In the end, what I feel would work best is a second MA, for things such as an RPS.  Everyone can be happy.

J_A_B

[Vermillion]

What JAB said !

I'll try to be polite myself and simply say NO!

[Steven]

JAB,

<<>>
Someone is always being punished.  I quickly realized you cannot please everyone with aircraft choices.

<<<...say if I'm in a P-51D...>>>
Well, say you are in that and 100 other people as well and then those in the LA7s and other "uber" aircraft...how the heck am I going to realistically choose the Hurr1 and actually enjoy my time in the arena??   The freedom of choice actually limits choice.  

If we are for "freedom of choice", then lets remove the perks on the F4U-1C, ME-262, Tempest and the rest.  

<<>>
But why is your ride so special?  Others my have their favorite as being the ME262.  My special ride will probably become the Hurricane1; however, I seriously doubt I'll fly it more than a few times in the MA because by "freedom of choice", I'm going to be a sitting duck and for $15/month that's not what I'm paying to be.

I 2nd JAB on his "freedom of choice" in the arena and not limiting anyone from their favorite ride.  Bye, bye, perks!  Oh wait, but we need perks so the fans of early-war stuff can fly.  Hello perks!  But wait....      

[J_A_B]

You love the Hurricane and you can fly it any time you want to.  

You say that the presence of superior planes will, however, invalidate your plane choice.   Here's the rub--not only do you want "your" plane to always be available, you also want it to be one of the best planes in the sky.   That is crossing the line--you're moving from flying what you want to, to dictating how others play.

I still fly my favorite ride despite the presence of hordes of LA7's which are decidedly superior at the altitudes I fly at  (the Hurricane has more performance advantages over the LA7 on the deck than the P-51D does).  Yet you don't see me begging for the LA7 to be perked;  indeed I argue for it to NOT be perked because, although it might give MY particular favorite plane troubles, it doesn't screw up the overall balance of the arena.  I understand that what I choose to fly is MY business, not everyone else's concern.

The Hurricane IIC has advantages.  It has a very tight turn radius and very effective weapons.  You can make your ammo load last quite a bit longer by using only 2 cannons at a time while still maintaining useful firepower.  If you stay off the deck and use smart ACM (like a well-timed lead turn) you can get kills in it.  Since the Hurricane is generally outclassed performance-wise, you should fly in more populated areas where its lack of 1 vs 1 performance is less of an issue.

As for the perked aircraft....I sympathize with the people who like ME-262's and Tempests and such.  Unfortunately, it is not possible to have 100% free always available 262's and not have it screw up the game.  Most flightsims have dealt with this by either not enabling these "too good" planes in their arenas, or by neutering their performance.  While the perk system is not perfect, it at least allows these aircraft to participate in the MA without being detrimental to gameplay.  There are some perked aircraft, most notably the 152, that may work out as non-perk material.

I still maintain that a second MA with a different planeset (like an RPS) would go far to make everyone happier.


J_A_B

[Steven]

<<>>
Wrong.  I want the lesser performing aircraft to be a viable choice for the arena.  And with a 20-kill streak in a Wildcat, the "uber-x" plane would still be available.  What you are basically saying HERE is to remove all perks.  I say, go for it.  

<>
I see you contradicting yourself.  Now you sympathize and you do enjoy the perk system?  How will ME-262s and Temps screw up the game?  People will fly what they want to fly.  Ohhh, but they are too superior to YOUR ride.  Hmmm, point of view is very important and I'm sure an LA7 looks like a super UBER plane to a Hurri 1 pilot.   So is it perks or no perks?  It sounds like you want the perks as long as your ride is the best.  Check my scores from December, I do NOT fly the ubers.  I fly F6F and F4U-1 mostly.  

So I can't fly a 262 because you think it'll screw up the game and you'll have a tougher time.   Errrr, that was what I was getting at with my Hurr1 example.  So which is it... perks for those uber rides or no perks and let lazze-fair rule the MA?  I guess your ride is how far we take the bar in determining what is too uber or not.

[Geeesy]

Well JAB nobody would have been cut down his freedom of choice if there would be an RPS. Actually nobody would cut down your freedom to choice in the arena menu, so why dont log into the duell arena if your favourite ride isnt available in the MA? Maybe the CT staff could work out with an RPS in the MA that once there is early RPS in the MA to let running some setup with a late time period in the CT, so your favourite ride maybe is available in the CT when it isnt in the MA and vice versa. While you are paying for your favourite rides there maybe pple like me who are paying (well due to no credit card I'm just going to pay...) for the sim as whole, and with that I mean a sim of the air combat in WW2 and not the last 2 years of it. And actually in these 2 years the planes of that time period didnt played that role as they did in the first 2 years where the outcome was still open. The 109E was more important than the 109G10, as the P40 and F4F was maybe more important in the PTO for the winning of the war as the P51... But such planes would never get nearly the same attention as they actually had in this game with these settings.

If there will not be a changing like an RPS or to perk more planes... well heck then I dunno why HTC is doing all the hard work with adding all these new early war planes. They could have just modelled the La7, N1k2, Spit, P51, F4U-4, 262 and Tempest and would earn the same money with less effort...

[Doberman]

I agree.  J_A_B, you're being extremely hypocritical here.  The La-7 is detrimental to my enjoyment of flying a Hurri, but that's OK with you in your 51.  OTOH, the 262 would be a problem for you in the 51, so it can't run rampant?  Seems to be what you're saying here.  

Someone's gameplay will always be dictated to them.  Some of us would like to see an RPS or some other way for the early war planes to fly with something approaching parity (and have more than 3 or 4 opponents to choose from).  This limits your desire to only fly the 51.  You want to see everything available ('cept the super-uber planes which are a more serious threat to the pony), which limits my fun - seeing as how any decent pilot in a late war plane can run rampant over the early war crates.

I don't begrudge you your desire at all.  What we need to find is some way to bring as much happiness to everyone as we can.  

D

[J_A_B]

  Such an easy concept, yet they don't understand.   Apparently at least one of you is also unable to comprehend English, since I said that I too have fits of trouble fighting LA7's.

But unlike some people, I don't need to demand an "RPS" so the planes I have trouble with are gone most the time.  I actually use my brain (yes, you have one too) and figure out ways to deal with superior aircraft.  I guess whining is easier than thinking though.

As for the currently perked planes.....

Have any of you people flown in an environment where there were unlimited Me-262's?   I have, in several games.  You know what?  It sucks.  You think having 10% of the arena in Spit 9's is bad?  LMAO!  Think again!   A Hurricane can deal with a Spit 9; a P-51D can deal with an LA7.....but nothing with a propeller can deal with a Jet.  Granted, the Jet can't kill the propeller plane any easier, but it is untouchable.   You end up with gameplay for EVERYONE being drastically affected.

And that, kids, is the moral of the story--what is good for me, what is good for you, doesn't make a bit of difference.  What matters is what is good for EVERYONE.  I am the only person in the world who cares about the fact that LA7's beat the crap out of me if I fight them on anything near equal terms.  Likewise, nobody else cares if you can't figure out how to get kills in a 109F4 or Hurricane.

That is why the F4U-1C was perked awhile  back--it was changing the game for the worse, with 1K+ kills becomming the norm.  ACM was giving way to "joust warrior".  

I know some of you absolutely want to believe that I am some kind of hypocrite.  It would justify your own weak arguments.  Unfortunately, such accusations are just as full of holes as your complaints about not being able to compete in your choice plane.

BTW, not all planes are added for viability in the Main Arena.  Another thing you young 'uns probably don't realize, is there's MUCH more to Aces High than that "Hamster Wheel" you know as the MA.  There are TODs, WW, scenarios, and yes, the CT.   Having a varied planeset beyond the dozen or so late-war planes that rule the MA is VITAL for all those other events.

I notice that almost all of these replies seem to ignore my suggestion of having an RPS in a second arena.   That's right kiddies, some games have actually had TWO or more "Main Arenas", so everybody could be happy.  Why don't you go and get your RPS added in a second arena?  What's wrong with variety?  Why does everyone have to play the game the way you think it should be?  

Believe it or not, there were flightsims before AH came along and everything you're suggesting has been tried before. In fact another game that just happens to have a full-time RPS is in the process of gradually going bankrupt (shows how popular RPS really is).

J_A_B

[Urchin]

Actually Jab, I do see your point.  However, they see your point to, they are just calling it by a different name.  Most people that prefer early war aircraft would like to have some sort of RPS or some other system that limits plane choice.  This is for the reason that your describe, they want their plane to be competitive.   To a Hurricane I, these planes are essentially the same plane -  LA-7, P-51D, 109G10, 190D9, ME-262.  All are untouchable.  Except in the event of horrible luck, horrible SA, or horrible skill on the part of the la7-P51-109-190-262, the Hurricane 1 has NO chance of scoring a kill.  A "fight" (and I use the term very loosely) would consist of the late-war plane making firing passes on the early war plane (much like how people attack bombers, except add some turning by the target).  They aren't "whining" because their ride can't compete- they are just stating a fact.  

Much the same situation would occur were the Me-262 or Tempest unperked.  To a P51D, a Me-262 is just untouchable.  A P-51D has about as much chance of killing a 262 as a Hurricane 1 has of killing a P-51D (Although with HTC's rather 'generous' DM for the 262, it is fairly easy to bring down, I was hit by a grand total of 4 .50 caliber bullets from d1.1+ (one landed from d1.6) which took out both engines, I was dogmeat then)).  

The only difference is that even though I am a HUGE 262 fan (well, not really), I can't fly my favorite plane because it is to superior to the other popular planes.  You can still fly your favorite plane, and you don't want anyone to take it away from you.   I can understand that view, fortunately since I am not a fan of any one particular model of a plane I will have a plane to fly no matter what the planeset is.  

Also, I don't think Aces High can support two seperate MA's.  You can look at the experiment that the CT is, and it was intended to be a 'second' MA.  The only time I've seen more than 50 people in it was when the MA was down.  While again, this is not a problem for you (since you'd rather see the P-51D in the arena than 80 different types of early-war planes) for people who happen to want to fly an early war plane in an environment where they aren't just a target it is of some small concern.   I think HTC will eventually make a decision regarding a RPS and/or seperate arenas, and I trust that they will make the decision that will make the most number of people happy.

Hell, I'll even let you say I'm wrong, and that a Hurricane I will be able to kill an La-7, P-51D (or actually... really any other plane that isnt from 1940).  You can fly the Hurri, and I'll fly any other plane you want.  Then we can swap roles.  

The truth is that you in your P-51D ARE their Me-262 if they are in anything slower than a Spit9.