Talibans in Cuba, Euro pressure...

[Eagler]

bring ALL of the scum to Cuba, then have a prison "riot" which, very sorry to report, kills ALL of them. End of story and my tax dollars supporting their worthless murdering asses.

heard if/when they go to trial a US Army doc produced in 98 (hmm - during Willies adim) will be used against US gov as it states one person's terrorist is another person's "freedom fighter".

Kill them all b4 we overload COurt TV with this toejame.

[SageFIN]

Originally posted by -lynx-
 How can they be POWs? During the WW2 only memebers of the armed forced wearing uniform etc were treated as such. Anyone else caught with arms could have been simply shot on sight with no rights as a spy? Geez - the liberalism gone isane will be the end of us:(.

WTF are you talking about? Uniform makes one a member of armed forces. Some of the finnish soldiers in Winter war didn't have uniforms... you know why? Because there weren't enough uniforms for all and not enough money to buy them. Yet they were very much members of armed forces -- though if you'd been commanding the Red Army you'd apparently had all of the finnish POWs who didn't have an uniform shot and left to rot.

[Toad]

Any of you guys ever been to that part of the Carribean?

The "outdoor" confinement they have is probably much more comfortable than an "indoor" cinder block cell of the same dimensions. At least this way they get whatever breeze there is available.

They're getting AT LEAST the comforts they had when they were fighting. I suspect they are actually MORE comfortable than they were in the caves.

They aren't being mistreated. They're confined outdoors in a climate where that is probably a better deal than they had in Afgahnistan.

[Udie at Work]

Hmmmm  We saw how the Somali's treated our POW on TV.  Sadam beat the POW's he had on a daily basis.  Hanoi, how many hostages over the years?  How many dead hostages have we had over the past 30 years?  What kind of quarter do you think these guys would have shown any of us?  Have we already forgoten Masar-I-Sharif?  These are some of the same people who were at that place, some of whom have reportedly said that they will kill an American before they leave Cuba.  They should thank God almighty that they are prisoners of the USA.  The picture shown in Europe, from what I've seen, is a picture that was taken when they first got to Camp X-ray and were being proccessed into their cells. Freaking press is trying to make something out of nothing trying to start toejame.


 Bill O'Riley had an A-10 pilot verteran of the Gulf War on his show last night.  He got shot down towards the end of the war and spent about 3 weeks as a POW.  According to him and the they beat him and the other POW's on a daily basis.  Where they hell were all these human rights people then?  Ruwanda?  How many Iraqi civilians are dead because of Sadam? oh wait I forgot that's the USA"s fault too, silly sanctions.  Anybody else smell the hipocracy here?   On the History Channel they had the Blackhawk Down story on.  They showed the images of the dead and dismembered UN soldiers as well as the American soldier being dragged through the streets.  The Pakastani soliers got the worst end of that, you couldn't tell that what was being dragged used to be human.

 The fact is that these rechid creatures are lucky to even still be alive at this point.  They are lucky that they were not thrown into a 40 ft deep pit to live.  They get medical treatment and all that good stuff even though they don't rate high enough for oxygen intake.  LOL to be honest I can't believe these people.  Who  the diddly do they think the USA is? Hitler? Stalin?  Who the hell just spent the better part of the last century sending our soldiers and cash to try and help make the world a better place?  Who they hell do they think protected them agains the USSR?  Frances modern military? How many missionaries have we lost over the past 20 yrs in 3rd world nations?  These people better pray that the USA never turns into the evil monster that 1/2 the world would like the other 1/2 to think we are because there would probobly be no other half.

 I hate to sound selfish or arrogant, but Europe should just stay the hell out of this.   Maybe when you've had your largest city attacked by savage animals you'll understand.   Understand this,  Americans understand this war.  We know what's at risk here, our very way of life.  These prisoners are lucky to be where they are, for the time being anyway.   I can only imagine the uproar when we start the executions.   Maybe we should give the Briton prisoners back to England, that much I could consede, but if there's a way for any of them to find their way back to the streets I say don't give them back.  Hopefuly they will all be in shallow unmarked graves in Cuba before the year is over.   I think 9-11-02 would be a great day for mass executions,  wow and I'm anti-death penalty too.

 This whole "issue" is unbelievable to me.  I understand the word incredulous now, even if I can't spell it.

[Vector]

S!

First of all, those prisoners should be treaten as terrorist and hang, period. I can't understand the statements some european countries has given (including finland). This is so typical how "highly civilized states" nurses criminals and kicks victims. This makes me sig.

And talking about making me sig, there's this case called GRUNHERZ. Well atleast it made me sig until he wrote this: "And Im originally from Europe". That switched my feelings from anger to kind of sympathy. GRUNHERZ has some serious identity issues as he so much wants to be original american, but he ended up as a desperate american wannabe. I feel sorry for you because you have to live with yourself.

Generalizing any subject is dangerous and stupid. You said europeans don't have gut because someone here thinks prisoners rights are violated? Ok, according to all those rapes and murders that happens in USA every day, I could generalize that all american's are rapists and murderers? With your formula, I'm right by saying that. But do I think so? Hell no! I have absolutely nothing against americans, they are just as good as anyone else here in europe, not better, but not worse. However people like you can change many peoples opinion about america and americans, but as we now know, you're just american wannabe...

I don't know the reasons for you to drag communism and socialism in every reply you make but I'd bet it was something dramatic as it left such a huge marks on you.

It's kind of weird that in other forums your posts are ok, but here in O'Club you think you have "permission" to abuse europe and european people (others than americans that is)?
You really should change your psychiarist before it's too late.

[GRUNHERZ]

Yea yea whater vector save me your sympathy. Im quite comforable with my identity as an American and as a European. I just dont care for this wishy washy stance by Euro ploticians who now come in at the end of the war and start telling the USA what to do, why didnt they help more during the fighting? Only the USA and a few brave British soldiers fought in the war.  

And now the euros are all over this country, lemme take a headcount of all the european guards at the prison camp. Uhmmm it ends at 0, as in none! They just sit in their warm comfy offices and just complain. The prsoners get acces to fucjking showers and hot meals three times a day. The Marines at Kandahar Airport and Rhino have not had a bath in oover 6 weeks, where is diddlying human rights USA hating watch there?


Im sick of all this complaing. If euro poloticans want to influence the prison they should volunteer to guard all of them- I bet they would shut up real quick when little Francois or Goeffrey were tasked with gurding these suiciadal murdering fanatics!


I say, put up or shut up.

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by Eaglecz


so how did they declare war to them when they arent soldiers ?

war can be declared on country, not person

war hasn't been declared....

[Vector]

Grunherz, I totally agree with you, everything you said!
All those european politicians nursing terrorists are so hypocritical. But not all citizens of european countries think same. After all there are reasonable people in europe too.

I just wish you could put it in that way in the first place instead of all that anti-europe thing.

I had no rights to start insult you, I just got little upset there and I apologize that.

[midnight Target]

Have any European leaders actually said anything about the prisoners? Or are we up in arms here about the press in EU? Try to keep your heads about this because the propaganda you hear may actually not be the collective opinion of the area.
The press in Europe, especially in England is notoriously more sensationalist than the mainstream press in America.

[Udie at Work]

Just found this on drudgereport.com  take a look at the pictures at the bottom of the article to remember how the taliban treated their women prisoners.  Hell we even gave them a sign pointing the direction to meca so they could pray properly.



http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002031100,00.html


 I do think there are some major anti-american forces behind this "human rights row".  Hopefuly Europe can see through it.

[straffo]

Being a good Euroland citizen I choose the Euro Way :

I'm starting a subscription for those poor Taliban's prisonner of those nasty fat hambuger eater ...


Leason learned : stop thinking with "cliché".

[gatt]

Actually european press is reporting Amnesty International, Red Cross and UK government's concerns.

Again, some press in europe is wondering why the american taliban is not at X-ray camp. There is some irony about it.

[Vector]

Ain't he still the citizen of USA? By that he prolly has different trial than others.

[gatt]

Thats the problem Vector. Since he shot against US Army, helped the terrorists ... actually he is a terrorist ... and so on, he should be treated like other X-ray prisoners.  If you dont do it, the UK government will claim his citizens back ASAP and the press will say the USA are using double standards.

damned signature

[-lynx-]

I say, put up or shut up.

 Please do Grun - you're talking out of your arse. Little "Goeffreys" (of Parachute Regiment in this case) are in Afganistan, have been for awhile and will stay for another while too.

though if you'd been commanding the Red Army you'd apparently had all of the finnish POWs who didn't have an uniform shot and left to rot.

Sage - just crawl back under your rock and stay there. K? I don't recall Finns being particularly warmhearted to the Russian POWs but those things obviously didn't feature in your history lessons. They told you you'd almost won the Winter War too, did they not?

As for who the POW actually is (according to Geneva Convention that is) - my bad on the uniforms, however here's the definition itself:

Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) That of carrying arms openly;

(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

4. Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

5. Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

As far as I can see those from the X-ray camp fall under neither category...

As for British/American muslims caught in Afganistan - I really don't see how a citizen of a country caught fighting against his own country's Armed Forces can be treated as a POW - he/she is a traitor and treason is a capital offence anyway you look at it.