Author Topic: Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"  (Read 1047 times)

Offline Toad

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« on: January 23, 2002, 12:05:38 AM »
From CNN:

"Daschle, D-South Dakota, said he wants to bring up an economic stimulus bill with four provisions:

-- An extension of the 26-week unemployment benefit by another 13 weeks.

-- Payroll tax rebates for those who do not pay income tax and therefore did not receive a check last year.

-- Tax breaks for businesses by allowing them to accelerate tax deductions for equipment.

-- Money to help states, most of which are running budget deficits. "

*********

Now THAT'S funny!

How do you get a tax rebate if you paid no taxes?

Hey, if  some folks truly NEED money, let's help them.. but let's not BS about what it is... it's Welfare, plain and simple.

This is the kind of "DC Doublespeak" we would all be better off without.


The rest of it?

Extend unemployment? Sure, why not. The fargin' Congress has been sittin' with it's collective thumb up it's a** so long that this recession is going to last a while longer.

Tax breaks to business for equipment? Sure... as long as the Exec's don't give themselves big fargin' bonuses for buying it and they buy it from US manufacturers (US tax money, US jobs.. no offense meant to the rest of the world ;)), why not?

Help the states? Yeah, help them do things that matter and will last, like help them pay for infrastructure [roads, bridges, schools, etc.]

My .02. Write your favorite Dipsh*t in Congress and tell him what you think. Let 'em know you're watching. They love to hear from us. :D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Seeker

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2002, 05:30:39 AM »
Tax breaks to business for equipment?

Define equipment....

Like the new Caddy for the boss?

The company jet or holiday home?

Viva la revolucione!;)

Offline Kieran

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2002, 06:10:09 AM »
C'mon, Seeker. Sure, businesses could possibly abuse the system and attempt to misuse tax credit for frivolous items- but it isn't that easy.

Tax rebates to those who paid no taxes? That's a handout pure and simple, and thinly veiled at that. He either thinks we're too stupid to understand or there's enough people in the category to care.

Offline Sandman

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2002, 09:36:31 AM »
They want stimulus?

Try this... FLAT TAX. No excemptions, no exclusions, no IRS.
sand

Offline Ripsnort

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2002, 09:39:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
They want stimulus?

Try this... FLAT TAX. No excemptions, no exclusions, no IRS.


A good liberal does not want a flat tax Sandman.

Offline Udie at Work

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2002, 09:44:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
They want stimulus?

Try this... FLAT TAX. No excemptions, no exclusions, no IRS.




 Boy that would be nice 10-15% across the board. That or a national sales tax would be the best option for us.  I prefer the national sales tax because you get all the black market money too.  

 But I don't thinke the democrats will allow those kinds of tax structures.  They are too fair and there would be no need for the IRS.  Maybe one day, but I doubt it.  You don't even hear republicans pushing either of these anymore :(

Offline Sandman

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2002, 09:47:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ripsnort


A good liberal does not want a flat tax Sandman.


LOL!

I don't feel like a bad liberal. Funny, I don't feel like a good conservative either.

Oh gawd! I've been disenfranchised!
sand

Offline midnight Target

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2002, 10:00:53 AM »
There there Sandman.....the correct path to get home is on the left.

A flat tax puts a significantly harder hit on people with a lower income. A national sales tax would be detrimental to the economy as it would by definition be inflationary. (raising prices without raising value).


 :cool:

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2002, 10:25:08 AM »
Tahgut, at the risk of going slightly off topic, why do they call Santa Monica "The peoples Republic of Santa Monica"....I've heard that referenced more than once in both writing and radio (no, not Rush, he's entertainment, not to be taken seriously, IMO)

I'm assuming because of the cities tendancy to swing slightly towards communism, but what exactly are they doing down there that directs comments like this? Honestly, I don't know the history of Santa Monica .

Offline Udie at Work

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2002, 10:25:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target

A flat tax puts a significantly harder hit on people with a lower income. A national sales tax would be detrimental to the economy as it would by definition be inflationary. (raising prices without raising value).
 :cool:



 I have to disagree :)

 If a flat tax was based on the level of the lowest tax payers they would not pay more. Sure they wouldn't pay less, but it would be a fair system.  This is the main reason I don't support it, I know realisticly that not enough  Democrats in congress would ever vote for this to pass it into law,  a real shame too.

 A national sales tax would increase prices without increasing value, you are correct sir. But what you're not taking into account is all the extra money people would have from not paying an income tax.  This would be a HUGE[/i][/u] ammount of cash money,  about $5,000 to $7,000 each year for me alone.  In my dad's case he would save about $40,000 a year!!!!!!  and he is by no means a rich man,  though he would be alot closer if the government didn't rape him each year.   With that money my dad would invest and earn much more than that, which would mean more money to spend. :)  People would spend more if they have more, that's a truth proven by history and common knowledge (ie. the old saying "the more you make the more you spend)   You'd have whole segments of our population who don't pay taxes having to pay,  ie the drug dealers, people who get alot of cash tips, people who don't pay income tax (weazel).  The coffers would increase (ok that part is hypothisis but it seems pretty common sensicle to me)  


 But you know beyond that,  I wouldn't mind paying income tax if they would just spend the money wisely.  

-- Payroll tax rebates for those who do not pay income tax and therefore did not receive a check last year. [/i]

 What the hell is that?  We're at war and Dashel comes out with pure bread wealth distrobution?  The economy is in reccession and needs some relief from the government and this is what he comes up with?  How about not giving people who didn't pay taxes a rebate and giving it to the people who actually earned it?  Why is that such and evil concept?  I'm not trying to be sarcastic either.  I know both sides play political games, but to be honest I don't see any republicans doing this right now.  I'm not saying they aren't I'm just saying I haven't seen it.  We need tax relief now, not in 2 or 3 or 5 or 5 years like the "tax cut" they past last year, but on our next paychecks.  I had to stop putting into my 401k because I need money and I didn't get a raise this year (yet hopefuly)  because of the slow economy.   That hurts me in the long run.

 Look at history,  Kenedy proved it in the 60's, Raygun :D proved it in the 80's.  If you lower tax burdon, tax revenues will go up.  Call it trickle down, call it Reaganomics, call it what ever you want the fact remains that it works, and has been proven in history.  AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGG  I'm forgetting about pork barrel legislation, never mind it will never work.  Our government has no self control :(

Offline Toad

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2002, 11:14:41 AM »
Well, actually I was focusing more on the "doublespeak" which both sides engage in regularly. I see the thread has turned more towards a "how to tax" vein, though.

How about a "combo" flat tax and national sales tax?

You can exempt the lower income folks from the flat Income tax in the same way we do now. Pick a level of income and those below that don't pay at all. Would sort of ameliorate the hit on the truly needy right?

You could theoretically keep the flat tax on the rest in the reasonable range by using a national sales tax. The benefit here is that you DO get a piece of the action on the "black market money". When the drug lords buy a new Benz they have to chip in. Again, you can exempt items, like food and prescription drugs, etc. to lessen the hit on the truly needy. Put the National Sales Tax on the "luxury" or "convenience" items, not the necessities. Vacation to Disneyland? Pay up.

The real obstacle would be the total destruction of the "H & R Block" part of our society and all those IRS guys sitting around twiddling their pencils. Don't think the Congress will go for those. ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline easymo

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2002, 12:46:58 PM »
I moved to Texas, from California, about 11 years ago.  My main reason for doing so, was that it was cheaper to live here.  What is interesting about this, is that Texas has no state income tax at all.  Don't try to tell me a sales tax wont work.  I have lived it.



Also, a sales tax is a flat tax, of sorts.  We all pay the same for a gallon of gas.  And there is a tax man standing beside every pump.  That tax hurts the poor far more then the wealthy.  The government should stop taxing energy in all its forms (food,fuel, electricity) all together. Other than that, a sales tax would work.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2002, 01:00:36 PM by easymo »

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2002, 12:55:37 PM »
You guys are missing the reasons why it's a good idea to offer payroll tax rebates to those who don't pay income tax.  Toad, this goes back to when I stated in an earlier thread that the federal government can control aggregate demand through interest rates and taxes.  You mistook that to mean raising taxes, but it also means lowering taxes.

Those in the lowest income bracket live paycheck-to-paycheck.  They tend to spend whatever money they earn immediately on necessities -- bills, mortgage or rent, food, etc with little or nothing left over.  When you cut their payroll taxes and effectively provide them with more money to spend, they will spend it.  If you cut payroll taxes for the wealthiest individuals, there is no guarantee they'll spend the money rather than put it into savings.  The result of cutting payroll taxes on the poor is that we expect aggregate demand for goods and services to increase almost immediately.  The secondary effect of this is that businesses will need to employ more people in order to meet this heightened demand.  That means more jobs, lower unemployment, and a stronger economy.

If I'm not mistaken, a number of economists as well as former Treasury Secretaries have come out in favor of reducing payroll taxes on those earning the least income for exactly these reasons.  It's not "witty," nor is it a handout as Kieren suggests.  What it is, believe it or not, is good fiscal policy from a suppy/demand perspective.

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Offline Fatty

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2002, 01:17:03 PM »
At this rate I would be happy with any tax structure that does not by its complexity wastefully create an entire sector of th economy that does nothing except try to interpret that structure.

Talk about wasteful....

Offline Rude

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Daschle could be "Wit of the Week"
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2002, 01:23:57 PM »
There is a Beast which moves about our great land...a Beast which will not stand for a flat tax or a national sales tax.

That Beast is comprised of Tax Lawyers and CPA's.

Our little family owned business here in KC, which I work for, has a net worth of over 180 million dollars....we cannot exist without several tax attorney's and CPA's due to the U.S. Tax Code.

It will never happen.

Midnight....

and our current tax system is not inflationary? That was a good one:)