Author Topic: Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?  (Read 449 times)

Offline Vortex

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« on: January 23, 2002, 10:34:55 AM »
This ought to bring out the rants. Nevertheless, it needs to be asked (and it would be nice to see an HTC rep actually comment here).

The MA is proving to be a festering cesspool of foul mouthed idjits. The absence of any mention of such conduct in the TOS is also somewhat disheartening. I realize there are certain limitations insofar as manpower goes. However there doesn't even appear to be an intent to keep a clean shop, nor from what I've seen the necessary tools for the players to try to do it themselves with any reasonable degree of effectiveness.

Now just to be clear, I can spew verbal diaherra with the best of them. Actually I can pretty much guarantee that I could teach the bulk of the folks online a thing or two about pitching back rye, spewing filth, and getting in one bar brawl too many. However, there's a place and time for that and, imo, AH isn't the place or the time. I just don't come here for that and I do my best to offer that same respect to everyone else logged in. I'm of the opinion that the person sitting in his den with his son on his knee trying to enjoy some fun in game doesn't want to see Joe Circlejerk show us all the less than noteworthy limitations of his vocabulary and his intellect.  

The norm online here suggests that there is a vocal minority of Joe Circlejerks that don't have such reservations. That's not a surprise though. I've been involved in online gaming long enough to know that folks can get quite ballsy with their comments when they've got a computer monitor and thousands of miles between them and their counterparts. It is entertaining though if you finally get a chance to meet them face to face. Oh how attitudes change :). But that's a different issue entirely.

Here's the poop though as I see it. I haven't been here that long, I quite enjoy the game itself and think its a superb work in progress (a "Bravo!" is indeed deserved to the HT, Pyro and all the HTC folks for that), accordingly I'm quite interested in staying and playing. However, in good conscience I can't bring myself to pay for a product that consists so largely of offensive material, whether by design or simple circumstance. Simply put, I just don't enjoy logging in to the channel garbage that is the norm in AH.

Now I've had the pleasure of meeting both HT and Pyro personally and know them to be decent, stand-up guys. Further, I realize with a small business that one has to be very careful how far you extend your resources. Policing this sort of thing can be a drain on resources. However I must say that a complete absence of any conduct reference in the TOS does come as a surprise to me. It does help explain the rampant disregard for others that is the norm over the various radio channels in MA though. "F" this and "F" that is fast becoming the most oft used word on channel 1 (channel 2 a lot more lately as well).

So to the questions at hand (finally :->):

1) Are there plans to put in place, and enforce, any level of conduct ground rules for online play? If so, a time frame for this would be great.

2) Is there a possibility for empowering the players to tailor what they do and don't see a bit more vigorously? What I mean by this is a more effective squelch tool that, at minimum, does the following...
a) Allows me to squelch ALL channels, including the country channel;
b) Allows me to save and automacally load on login channel squelches as well as any individual players that are squelched. Basiclaly a squelch tool that is persistant;
c) Provide a language filter. This is common place in online games and is very much needed here. It allows parents to help control what is seen as well as lets one leave channel 1 and 2 unsquelched so they can talk to friends, etc without being innudated with the verbal diaherra.

3) If you folks at HTC are happy with the present levels of conduct in MA and don't see that any steps need to be taken, although unfortunate, that's cool by me. Its your game after all. Just let me know here if you could.

Personally I'd prefer to see HTC get forcefull with a conduct policy and start punting accounts. The simple fact of the matter is that the tools mentioned above don't do anything to promote a sense of community as they place the player in a bit of a squelched bubble. Howver if you're not actively policing it on the corporate side you need to allow the players to do it from their end. Although its not by intent, you guys ARE running an X-rated product here with no means by which for the player to effectively restrict that (.squelch just isn't near robust enough). That's eventually going to cause some problems I'm sure.

Would really like to hear from someone at HTC just to get a feel for where this is, or isn't, going.

Vortex
« Last Edit: January 23, 2002, 10:41:09 AM by Vortex »
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Offline FOGOLD

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2002, 10:48:50 AM »
hI

I agree although I don't find it quite as bad as that. There is a language filter on text tho cos I got a warning one night for saying S**T in a fit of pique and was duly chastened!.:o

Cant see how RW can be regulated  although its inter squad usually anyway

Offline Vortex

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2002, 10:59:11 AM »
The language filter point is interesting Fogold as I know I've seen full use of some of the more popular, er, point enhancement words :). Hmm, perhaps its applied only to certain channels? (i.e. on channel 1 but not 2...or something like that?)

Vortex
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Offline Toad

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2002, 11:20:51 AM »
Vortex,

Well written, well said. I agree with you.

I do think the language filter works on all channels but of course creative spelling can get the idea across in most cases anyway.

I support the "permanent squelch" idea. Would save some time because there are some perennial "bad actors". (Of course, HTC might note who was making the "top ten" in squelch lists game-wide and have the basis for a little heart-to-heart chat with those folks.

I'm sure we'll be hearing from the "free speech" lobby pretty soon. Rest assured that there are many that think as you do though.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline minus

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2002, 11:46:12 AM »
<>?????? sory but words are words and if u anderstud always something very vulgar and ofensive when the word looks not clear to you, i sugest instead of permanent squelch   add removable RADIO bar for those people

;)

if u realy need to squlech every 1   why u need text bufer then ?

Offline K West

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2002, 12:50:11 PM »
Behind you 100% Vortex.  There's been several posts like yous in the General Fourmn over the past few months.  It's getting worse and not better in the MA and HTC won't be able to delay having to deal with this for very much longer.

 A squelch list will work well for those who've been already been online and even know how to use it. It doesn't change the fact that the abhorant behavior and mindset of these people spewing on channel one won't be effected at all and thier garbage on channel one is what new players will see. And the new players may feel it's accepted beahvios as they won't see much flak coming back from others in the arena because quite a number of those who would have objected will have channel one or the offending spewers squelched.  A squelch list only provides the user with selective sound prooof ear muffs. It doesn't change, correct or help eliminate the undesirable behavior in the least.

 I like the existing squelch feature.  I do wish it was persistant and that I did not need to re-squelch some people when I come back online the next time.  However I'd much rather use it to squelch people talking religion, politics, sim XX vs game XX or the generals on the country channel than artifically making the arena more "mature and clean" sounding to suit my taste.

 The only solution, IMO,  is active policing of the arena by HTC. By any of several means.  I think a running log of the radio text is the simplest, fool proof method that comes to mind where it can be reviewed and players can be warned by HTC for unacceptable behavior on the radio.  

 Westy
« Last Edit: January 23, 2002, 01:12:26 PM by K West »

Offline J_A_B

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2002, 01:03:05 PM »
"The only solution, IMO, is active policing of the arena by HTC. "

I second this.

J_A_B

Offline Exile

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2002, 01:32:00 PM »
I was a Game OP (I think that's what it was called) on AW way back when and I think the presence of a "known" representative of the company made a difference. All it usually took was a quick "Watch the language please" and it was taken care of. Occasionally you had to boot someone, but this in turn help drive home the point that certain behaviour will not be tolerated.

The "known" part is very important IMO because it puts a "name" at least to someone who is "in charge" at that particular time. Someone you can go to when needed instead of relying on built-in filters that everyone finds a way around anyways.

Offline skernsk

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2002, 01:35:25 PM »
1) Are there plans to put in place, and enforce, any level of conduct ground rules for online play? If so, a time frame for this would be great.

There are suppoesed to be "moderators" in the arena.  While I have no idea who they are or IF they are there they could step up and do the job

2) Is there a possibility for empowering the players to tailor what they do and don't see a bit more vigorously? What I mean by this is a more effective squelch tool that, at minimum, does the following...
a) Allows me to squelch ALL channels, including the country channel;


.squelch 1,2 etc. will do this.

b) Allows me to save and automacally load on login channel squelches as well as any individual players that are squelched. Basiclaly a squelch tool that is persistant;

People have been asking for this since before the days of Gunman26.  It would be a nice addition, but I'd rather see a new plane than time spent on this.


c) Provide a language filter. This is common place in online games and is very much needed here. It allows parents to help control what is seen as well as lets one leave channel 1 and 2 unsquelched so they can talk to friends, etc without being innudated with the verbal diaherra.

HTC has a filter and it works well 90% of the time.  Nothing can be done with "creative spelling tho".


If you are noticing certain players getting out of line.  Take a screenshot of a film and send it in.  If enough e-mails come in HTC will have no choice but to do something.

At times it gets frustrating.  And it is usually the same people every night.  Most however are mature enough to take thier lumps and move on.

Offline ergRTC

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2002, 03:24:59 PM »
I dont know what your country is like, but ours is not so bad on channel 2.  We do have some real schmuks that like yakking on channel 1 though.  I noticed this in AW but all we did was stay in the pacific arena where the people were a little more mature.  A couple of our people, perfectly fine pilots, have gotten into the habit of throwing out idiot comments for no reason.  Often off color bits about a persons sexuality.  Lame. Maybe I will start sending snapshots to htc.  It really is just a couple of offenders.  If we jump on them, they will get a clue I hope.

Offline Vortex

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2002, 11:00:08 AM »
Certainly some good points and suggestions raised here. I think Exile raises a good point as well wrt how little policing is often necessary to drive home the point of acceptible and unacceptible behavior. That comes full circle though to what HTC views as acceptible, which has yet to be answered. Anyone from HTC read these boards? Would quite like to know what your opinions are on this issue.

Just to clarify a couple points that have popped up here. Channel 2 can't be squelched. That's important to note as I've seen discussions over the country channel get just as silly as those over the main channel. There's no way of filtering that short of squelching every countryman online...which isn't terribly practical.

The existing filter, if it works at all, is sporatic at best. What is it supposed to do anyway? Eliminate the word entirely or just change the characters of the word? For certain though it misses a fair bit as I payed close attention to this last night.

Vortex
« Last Edit: January 24, 2002, 11:05:29 AM by Vortex »
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Offline MANDOBLE

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2002, 02:43:16 PM »
Come to rookland, the most civilized country. Never read any of that crap in the green buffer.

Offline hitech

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2002, 04:54:08 PM »
My opinion is simple, but implementing my opion is very complicated.

We can not put in our TOS that using bad language will result in the closing of an account. The resone is simple, if we put that in the TOS it meens that if you use 1 bad word, and anyone complains to us about it, we have no choice but to kick that person out.

This would  not be a good arangemnt.

Wrather we leave the TOS very open that we can kick you out for any resone we disire.


2. It is not posible for us to police the arena 24/7.

3. We do have monitors who control the situation a lot of the time.

Our view is that we wan't to minimize profanity in the arenas as much as possible, at the same time we realize the difference between continual missuse vs the ocaisional frustration.

HiTech

Offline Raubvogel

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2002, 05:03:23 PM »
Please add a permanent squelch list. I get tired of typing the same names everytime I enter the arena. How hard could it be? I imagine it could be done very easily.

Offline funkedup

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Decency in MA and HTC policy on conduct. Is there such a thing?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2002, 05:44:40 PM »
Persistent squelch would be solve this issue for me.  A .cfg file with a list of handles that are automatically squelched when you log in.