They should of listened to Ollie!!

[Poony]

Dont know if anyone posted this before but........

Anyone Remember This? IT WAS 1987!

An old video of Lt. Col Oliver
North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan
Administration.

There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree. But what he said was stunning!!

He was being drilled by some senator; "Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?"

Ollie replied, "Yes I did sir." The senator continued, trying to get a
laugh out of the audience, "Isn't this just a little excessive?"
'No sir,' continued Ollie. "No? And why not?" the senator asked. "Because the lives of my family and I were threatened sir."
'Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned.
'By a terrorist, sir.' Ollie answered.

'Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?" >
"His name is Osama bin Laden sir." Ollie replied.

 At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. "Why are you so afraid of this man?" the senator asked.

"Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of," Ollie
answered.  "And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator.  "Well sir, if it were up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth."

The senator disagreed with this approach and that was all that was shown of the clip.

 If anyone is interested, the Senator turned out to be none other than Al Gore.

[Ripsnort]

Urban legend.  See http://www.snopes2.com

Claim:   Oliver North stated during the 1987 Iran-Contra hearings that Osama bin Laden was
       "the most evil person alive" and that "an assassin team [should] be formed to eliminate him
       and his men from the face of the earth."

       Status:   False.

       Example:   [Collected on the Internet, 2001]


                  I was at a UNC lecture the other day where they played a video of Oliver North during the
                  Iran-Contra deals during the Reagan administration. I was only 14 back then but was surprised by
                  this particular clip. There was Olie in front of God and Country getting the third degree. But what
                  he said stunned me. He was being drilled by some senator I didn't recognize who asked him:

                  'Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?'

                  Oliver replied, 'Yes I did sir.'

                  The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience, 'Isn't this just a little excessive?'

                  'No sir,' continued Oliver.

                  'No. And why not?'

                  'Because the life of my family and I were threatened.'

                  'Threatened? By who.'

                  'By a terrorist, sir.'

                  'Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?'

                  'His name is Osama bin Laden.'

                  At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people
                  back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator
                  continued.

                  'Why are you so afraid of this man?'

                  'Because sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of.'

                  'And what do you recommend we do about him?'

                  'If it were me I would recommend an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from
                  the face of the earth.'

                  The senator disagreed with this approach and that was all they showed of the clip.

                  It's scary when you think 15 years ago the government was aware of Osama bin Laden and his
                  potential threat to the security of the world. I guess like all great tyrants they start small but if left
                  untended spread like the virus they truly are.



       Variations:

            One of the versions in circulation concludes "The senator disagreed with this approach
            and that was all that was shown of the clip. If anyone is interested, the Senator turned
            out to be none other than . . . Al Gore." (Senator Al Gore of Tennessee was not a member
            of the United States Senate Select Committee on Secret Military Assistance to Iran and
            the Nicaraguan Opposition and therefore did not take part in the questioning of any
            witnesses before the Committee.)

       Origins:   For most of us who watched the televised Iran-Contra hearings in 1987 -- held by
       Congress to determine whether the Reagan administration had secretly and illegally sold arms
       to Iran in order to secure the release of American hostages, then used the profits from those
       sales to fund the contra rebels in Nicaragua -- the enduring
       image we came away with was a memory of an unapologetic and
       resolute Lt. Col. Oliver North delivering testimony in a Marine
       uniform. North, who was a central figure in the plan to secretly
       ship arms to Iran despite a U.S. trade and arms embargo, and
       who as a National Security Council aide directed efforts to raise
       private and foreign funds for the contras despite a Congressional
       prohibition on U.S. government agencies' providing military aid to
       the Nicaraguan rebels, testified before Congress under a grant of
       limited immunity in July 1987, becoming "the darling of the
       American conservative movement with his earnest, self-justifying
       testimony during the televised hearings" (or, to the other side,
       becoming a villain "who lied to Congress to support an illegal
       war").

       Although North had been granted limited immunity for his testimony, he was later convicted of
       criminal charges related to Iran-Contra activities (a conviction that was eventually overturned
       on the grounds that witnesses had been influenced by his immunized testimony). One of the
       charges against North was that he had received a $16,000 home security system paid for out of
       the proceeds of the Iran-Contra affair and had forged documents to cover his receipt of an
       illegal gratuity. North admitted that he knew the security system was a "gift" but maintained
       he never inquired about who had paid for it or how it was financed, and he was insistent that
       he needed the security system because the government had failed to provide adequate
       protection against international terrorists for him and his family.

       The terrorist North mentioned in his testimony was not Osama bin Laden, however. To the
       extent that bin Laden was known to the western world in 1987, it was not as a "terrorist" but
       as one of the U.S.-backed "freedom fighters" participating in the war against the Soviet
       occupation of Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden's hatred of the U.S. and conversion to "terrorist"
       status is not believed to have come about until the Gulf War of 1990-91, when he was
       outspokenly critical of Saudi Arabian dependence upon the U.S. military and denounced U.S.
       support of a "corrupt, materialist, and irreligious" Saudi monarchy. (The Saudi Arabian
       government stripped bin Laden of his citizenship in 1994 for his funding of militant
       fundamentalist Islamic groups.)

       No, Oliver North did not testify about or speak the name Osama bin Laden during the
       Iran-Contra hearings. He claimed that threats against his life had been made by terrorist Abu
       Nidal, telling a congressional committee:


                  I want you to know that I'd be more than willing . . . to meet Abu Nidal on equal terms
                  anywhere in the world. There's an even deal for him. OK? But I am not willing to have
                  my wife and my four children meet Abu Nidal or his organization on his terms.



       To emphasize his point, North showed the committee a blow-up of a newspaper article
       detailing the atrocities of Abu Nidal and recalled that an 11-year-old girl named Natasha
       Simpson, the daughter of an Associated Press news editor, had been gunned down (along with
       four other Americans) during an attack by an Abu Nidal group on the El Al terminal at the
       Rome airport in December 1985. North also later claimed that an attempt on his life had been
       made five months before his congressional testimony at the instigation of Libyan leader
       Mohmmar Qadaffi:


                  In February 1987, Muammar Ghadaffi ordered his thugs to carry out a threat made
                  against me in 1986. Thankfully, the FBI intercepted the well-armed perpetrators on the
                  way to our home, and my family and I were sequestered for a time on a military base.
                  The orders from Tripoli were delivered to a terrorist cell in Virginia -- at the offices of
                  The People's Committee for Libyan Students.



       So no, Oliver North didn't warn us back in 1987 about Osama bin Laden's "potential threat to
       the security of the world" or suggest that bin Laden be hunted down by "an assassin team,"
       nor was he given the brush-off by a clueless senator "who disagreed with this approach."
       Eventually, Col. North drafted his own response to this piece of misinformation:


                         

Incidently, there is a letter confirming this from Ollie on the website too.

[easymo]

http://www.northamerican.com/


Also an interesting poll from the same site.


January 23, 2002 -- As Director of Homeland Defense, what should Tom Ridge's top priority be?

3% Airport Security
77% Immigration Reform
21% Protecting against weapons of mass destruction

[Tumor]

Originally posted by easymo
http://www.northamerican.com/


Also an interesting poll from the same site.


January 23, 2002 -- As Director of Homeland Defense, what should Tom Ridge's top priority be?

3% Airport Security
77% Immigration Reform
21% Protecting against weapons of mass destruction
 

  I'm sure this is a fairly accurate poll.  Our immigration system sucks.

[Thrawn]

LOL!  And Canada's new post 9/11 immigration laws are modeled after it.

God, our government sucks.  I'm going to go cry now.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Tumor
I'm sure this is a fairly accurate poll.  Our immigration system sucks.

That is not a valid, scientific poll by any stretch of the imagination.  It's not random, and it allows website visitors to vote as often as they'd like if they change IP addresses.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[easymo]

"That is not a valid, scientific poll"

  And if it was?  Would it make the slightest bit of difference to you?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by easymo
[B And if it was?  Would it make the slightest bit of difference to you? [/B]

Yes, because I'd be surprised if the results of a scientific poll mirrored the one on Ollie North's website.  As it is, any sort of Internet or call-in poll should be viewed as simply entertainment, because they don't have a shred of validity to them otherwise.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[easymo]

FACT — Every legitimate poll ever done has consistenly shown strong support for mass immigration reform amongst virtually all ethnic groups and Americans as a whole. Here are a few unbiased poll examples:
 

1996 Roper poll - 83% of all Americans surveyed favor lower mass immigration levels. 73% of black Americans and 53% of hispanic Americans favor reducing mass immigration levels top 300,000 or less annually.

Latino National Political Survey (1993) found that 7 out of 10 Latino Americans believe mass immigration levels are too high.

Hispanic USA Research Group Poll (1993) found 3/4 of hispanics believe fewer immigrants should be admitted.
http://www.susps.org/opinion/myths.html

This is from that bastion of right wing politics.  The Sierra club.

BTW. polls taken before 9.11 to avoid that excuse.

[easymo]

http://www.fairus.org/html/07414001.htm
http://www.ecofuture.org/cair/
http://www.kzpg.com/Lib/Links/Groups/Teams/bacir.html
http://www.projectusa.org/immigration-views.html
http://www.susps.org/opinion/myths.html


I can get a few dozen more if you need them.

[Dead Man Flying]

Eh?  I'm not arguing that Americans don't favor immigration reform.  What I'm arguing is that if you couch immigration reform in the context of national security like in the Ollie North poll -- giving choices between airline security or protecting against weapons of mass destruction -- I would find it surprising if a scientific poll showed immigration reform to be the single biggest concern.

If you ask someone a simple yes/no question such as "Do you favor immigration reform?" you'll probably get a lot of YES answers.  You'd also probably get a lot of YES answers if you asked, "Do you favor increasing airport security?" or "Do you favor protecting against weapons of mass destruction?"  That's not surprising at all.  If you ask someone to rank national security concerns, immigration reform probably wouldn't be the top priority.  That is what would surprise me.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[easymo]

He He. Thought so.

I could show pic's of illegal immigrants tossing babys on pitchforks, and it would make no difference to you.

 BTW 25% of all criminals incarcerated in California are illegal immigrants.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by easymo
He He. Thought so.

I could show pic's of illegal immigrants tossing babys on pitchforks, and it would make no difference to you.

 BTW 25% of all criminals incarcerated in California are illegal immigrants.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?  Where in this thread have I at any point stated my personal preference on immigration reform?  Remember what they say about assuming?

Quit kneejerking so much.

-- Todd/Leviathn