Realism vs. Fun

[Samm]

Aside from being able to fly under radar, which is a good thing, I haven't noticed any difference of CT radar from MA radar . The sector bars tell me where the enemy is and if he is near a base he shows up as a red dot . One reason it is hard to find an enemy when there are only 8 or so players online is becuase at least half of them will be in GV's or sitting in a ship gun afk . Also if you don't see anything on your clipboard just ask someone .

Case in point: This morning while three of us were capturing 47 you got killed by enemy CG ack . Sarge1 was sitting in a shipgun afk so we saw his kill msg . We asked him who he had killed because we had no idea that there was another knight online with us .

[mrsid2]

I think that the majority of real life pilots were just happy if they didn't encounter any enemies on their sorties.

I mean, who would want to die potentially?

In the game its more action more fun of course.

[Wotan]

I have flown in the ct since day 1.

Dar or no dar I could careless. I always find a fight.

I personally think having field capture enabled is far worse for me then dar settings.

I think structure and cv down times should be atleast 45 min to an hour (unless resupplied)  

I dont for pac stuff in general but my 1st experience in this tour in the ct I got 9 kills and was killed by 5inch guns 8 times. I was never killed by direct nme fire. They parked a cv off 28 (2 miles max) and when ever I would reverse they ran to ack cover.

It would be more "real" to force each side to protect its cv. Inevitably some guy upped and suicided the cv. Had the cv been kept 20-25 miles off shorethis wouldn't have happened. Theres very few sb in this map so the cv is more a mobile flak platform.

I will trade you dar for no field capture and longer down times

Theres a crew of back door base grabbers which is fine if attacking undefended fields is your deal. But I am off the opinion that we just dont bring in enough folks to be able to cover all the fields and then its seems to me theres alot of off hour land grabs.

Longer down times may lead to longer flight times (until they resupply the field) so dot dar may help counter this. However I dont care much for the "ho, miss, split esse, run to ack, 5 inch gunner kills me.....

Its just no better then the main and no fun.

I am not gonna resort to the suicidal cv killa.

The euro map with no base capture was just more fun imho.........

[bowser]

Are you sure that the present code will not allow increasing the bar dar in the TOWER ONLY?  Could a CM check?  If it's possible, that might be a good compromise.

One thing I've found is that with the reduced dar, the fight centres around only one area, since of course most will go where they are sure they will find a fight.  Maybe increasing the bar dar will spread the fights out.

bowser

[-ammo-]

I want to chime in here, but I want to emphasize that I mean this in a constructive manner.

I enjoy the CT and have since the new team has taken over.  Now with the new setup, its a different story.  I wanted to fly allied to fly the P-47. I find that I can get the P-47 but at a price of a really long ride to the fight. AT the time the IJN were attacking our CV and a land base or 2 on the far western side of the map.  I flew for 15-20 minutes to get there.  Notr only does this effect the P-47, but all the planes. The Hellcat is available from the CV but it was capped pretty good by Zero's and Tony's.  

I love to fly, but I just dont like to spend all the time needed to arrive at the fight. I guess I could just launch a Hellcat from the capped CV and give the JAPS a good squirrrelly target. But that is not fun for me.  ANyway, I will look forward to the next setup.  I will step in there from time to time to see waht the sitrep is. Maybe it would allow for a good sortie for me.

[Eagler]

keep the settings the same, just throw out a smaller map until the numbers dictate a larger one ...

[Lephturn]

Originally posted by Wotan
I have flown in the ct since day 1.

Dar or no dar I could careless. I always find a fight.

I personally think having field capture enabled is far worse for me then dar settings.

Yeah, I don't like the field capture much either, but then I'm not a buff pilot or a vehicle driver.  If you eliminate the capture aspect completely, you eliminate another section of the players who enjoy that part of the game.  While that might be OK, I'm not sure it would solve the problem I saw.  I think it would help, but at the price of how many players?

[Lizard3]

I agree generally with Durr, and specifically with Eagler. My 2 phenigs.

[Saintaw]

Mhhh, Just need to be vocal Lephturn:  ASK

I haven't got any trouble finding a fight in the CT if there's someone there already, I just ask on country channel "Where is the action?" , or "where do you need my dweeby services?".

I have to point out that I HATE the MA Awacs radar, especialy the dots... if you have to change it, please keep the bars, but leave out dots, if you're in a sector (25nm sq?) and the bar shows an enemy, you'll usualy be able to spot it if you're in the same sector.

Ammo, I had a grudge abut the P38 only beng ebnabled at 57/59, but soon found out that you'll get some at captured fields (medium & large ones).

I'd personaly keep it the way it is, but hey.... that's just my opinion

[Furzy]

I really dont think the Dar bar is the issue here. Lepth you should have no problems looking at an enemy BAr And guessing what theyre at.

I think CT has pretty good settings as it is.. just remember its still in its infancy. Theres yet to be a proper terrain used, give it time.

The argument for no base captures is crazy...  The Arena would die of stagnation and boredom in 1-2 days.

Furzy

[Saintaw]

Originally posted by Furzy

The argument for no base captures is crazy...  The Arena would die of stagnation and boredom in 1-2 days.

Furzy

Agree, this is what we had before the CT was re-done, it was a bit pointless, maybe replace it with another form of start, but remove it ? I don't think it's a good idea.

Furz, didn't you say you were going to bed 'cause it was late ? ... OFF TO BED NOW, YOUNG MAN!

[Wotan]

the ct had just as many folks in it when there was no field capture as there are now.

it had just as many when flight times were longer

it had just as many when sector dar was bugged in the euro map and you never knew where the nme was at.

it had just as many folks in it when there was no score..

So where do you get "no field capture would cause stagnation"?

You dont you just made it up.

We actually had athe ct with no field capture and it was more fun...... and I know because i flew there.

There is simply not enough folks to prevent i guy from killin a town augering then goonin at fields well away from where the rest of the folks are.

in the stalingrad map with the exeption of 2 vbases everything else was taken without oposition.

In the norway map I would log off at 12 am with 5 guys left on come bac saturday around noon and they were only 3  guys on but all the lw bases were grabbed.

I think making damage rebuild times would give buffers something to do by closing down the nmes forward bases.

As for the cvs they are just ack platforms  as they are now. just put them 3k off shore and when you get in trouble over the field run for ack. There needs to be a much longer rebuild times on cvs. this may make folks use them a bit better.

By putting them right offshore eventually some1 will just suicide it.

As for planesets and dar I could careless. if dot dar would equate to more fun all round well lets try it.

I get kills like it is. I get kills with or without cvs or field capture, in a g2 or a zeke.

But dont tell me field capture matters 1 bit in relation to numbers because ct worked well without it.

[Drano]

Not really sure what the problem is, Leph. I've been flying in the CT a lot since its been up and I haven't had any trouble finding the others. I just look at the DAR bars or--just ask on country channel. Seems easy enough to me. A lil communication can go a long way.

I actually like the way the radar is set up. It makes you rely on your SA a bit more than the AWACS setup in the main. Ya gotta actually look around a bit.

Maybe I'm just a nut, but more difficult/challenging/whatever ya wanna call it=more fun to me. I ain't been bored in there yet. : )


                              Drano

Originally posted by Lephturn
I checked out the CT for a while this afternoon.  I REALLY like the new planeset and timeframe.  The map isn't bad and I think it works pretty well.  I did switch to TCP, but my connect seemed fine, even during a fight.

That said, I logged out after a while.  I was bored.  I spent way too long flying around looking for something to shoot at.  There were about 40 folks online, so there were enough of them... I just couldn't find them reliably.  I'm not alone either... I got a couple of newer folks to stop by the CT and check it out... and I got similar feedback.  While I really like the CT's idea and basic setup, I don't think it's going to work very well simply because the "realism vs. fun" balance is too far to the realism side.

Let me explain why I think these to are in conflict.  While I like to simulate WWII air combat, I fly AH to have fun.  There were lots of things about WWII air combat that really SUCKED, and I don't want to simulate those things.  One of the main things I don't want to simulate is the fact that in WWII, the vast majority of sorties would encounter no enemy aircraft at all.  While that's realistic, it's not fun.  The trick is to simulate the fun parts as realistically as possible, and be sure not to create an environment that simulates the parts that were not fun.

Bottom line, I think the more "realistic" radar settings in the CT are going to keep people away, including myself much of the time.  Yep, they are a lot more realistic with no dar below 500 feet, limited range dar bars and dot radar.  So realistic, that flying in the CT becomes TOO much like the real thing... lots of boredom.  If you want reasonable numbers in the CT, you need folks to be able to find a good fight.  Who cares if the radar isn't as realistic if it makes it more fun?

This has been my problem with the CT from the start, and it's still the problem I think is holding it back from being the arena I want to spend most of my time in.  All the other parts are in place.. planeset, perk points for an improved version of an RPS, all kinds of things.  If I had MA style radar I'd be happy, and I think there would be lots more folks in there.

I also believe this isn't just my opinion.  I think there is a very vocal minority that wants the ultra-realism, and that's fine, but I believe there is a mostly silent majority that will never bother to come in this forum and let you know why they don't fly the CT.  This is just my opinion, but I think the radar settings are too far on the realism side to get decent numbers of folks in there.  Personally, I'm dissapointed because the REST of the CT setup is so good and so fun.

Please CT organizers... think about switching the radar settings more toward the MA settings.  It won't be as realistic, but I think it will be more fun and it will allow more folks to enjoy the fantastic setups you all are putting up in the CT.

[Furious]

My two bits.

1.  Friendly dar-bar should always be on.  I should always have SOME idea where friends are.

2.  CV's should not be player controlled in CT.  Too often its is just parked off a coastal field and then the silliness begins.
 
3.  No more gigantic maps.  128x128 should be largest and they should be designed to enforce a logical front.

Oops, that's three.


F.

[Thrawn]

I like the setup as it is now.  And I have no problems finding a fight.