Author Topic: The 1-ping Super AI Ack has got to go (Read 571 times)

LePaul · « **on:** January 27, 2002, 01:48:01 PM »

The last 2 nights, I've had the time to play more than I do during the weeknights. Both myself and some squadmates are fascinated with incredible AI acks that are more accurate the faster you are. And, have some incredible range.

Repeatedly, I've had P-47's and P-38's enter a dive 15k over a base to line up on a target for a bomb release. I just as I release to nose up, I hear the 1-ping hit and am instantly in tower.

I'm just weary of the incredible AI acks, or the mannable/non-tracer ack. Its so easy to get cynical about this, and I guess that's where I am at with it. CV acks can't down anything flying over them. But, go over an airbase and make a low pass at 500mph, with plenty of evasive manuevers, and you're dead.

I dunno. I'm just frustrated that my last 10 sorties in fighters/jabo all suffer the 1-ping ack death. These aren't suicide runs, and judging from others bemoaning it on channel two, its something that really needs addressing.

Please, review the AI acks.

Maverick · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2002, 02:17:52 PM »

What exactly is wrong with the acks? Are you saying there should be no ack or that you should be able to jabo at will with no reasonable expectation of being shot down?

Personally I think the acks are undermodeled and should be able to track multiple planes simultaneously like it was for real. They are far too easy to take out and there should be no way anyone should be able to de-ack a field solo in a fighter or fighter bomber.

I'm not being sarcastic but stating my views based on my readings of the AAA situation as faced by real pilots in WW2. I just don't understand why you think acks are not decently set up as they are now.

Mav

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2002, 02:44:17 PM »

IMO, the main problem is the "ping", BOOOM, feature. In most of the cases, a SINGLE ping means critical damage or death. It seems there are no medium and no small cal acks. And all of them are even deadlier than hispano guns.

eddiek · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2002, 03:01:37 PM »

I'm not real happy with the ack situation myself. The slower the plane, the more likely you are to survive a jabo run, at least from my experiences.
One former Jug pilot I talked to told me about some of his attacks on German ack batteries and other ground attack runs, and he said they typically started their run from 10-12K, went into a 45-60 degree dive, pulled out at 3-5K, and he hardly ever got even scratched as they hit speeds of 500+ in the dives and the egress routes. And we are talking about anywhere from 25-100 guns in a target area, not 5-9 like we have at the fields. He said even with the many guns firing at you, you were hard to hit at those speeds. In AH, you have a better likelihood of surviving if you are in a Zero doing 200 mph when you attack a field than you do in a Jug or Mustang doing 400+, which is nuts IMO.

LePaul · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2002, 04:06:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
IMO, the main problem is the "ping", BOOOM, feature. In most of the cases, a SINGLE ping means critical damage or death. It seems there are no medium and no small cal acks. And all of them are even deadlier than hispano guns.

This is exactly what I am speaking of.

Im not, by any means, saying remove the acks. But it seems the AI ack is set to *Green Beret Sniper* level or something. I can understand taking hits and minor damage.

But the 1-hit-back-in-the-tower or dead engine syndrome is getting old for me.

I'm seeing it happen in all the armored planes...P47s on down to the Il-2.

Just gets frustrating, some days are better than others, ya know?

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2002, 10:33:18 PM »

I agree that the ack is too accurate, but to say that a 37mm wouldnt ruin your day real quick in one "ping" is false.

IMHO HTC should decrease the accuracy of the AAA by about 70%... AND increase the number of AAA installations on a field 3 fold. In other words - instead of 3 37mm sniper positions knocking 450 IAS aircraft out of the sky at 2000 meters, why not something like 8 37mm's, 4 20mm's, and some single .50's for good measure - ALL with GREATLY reduced accuracy. =) Of all the footage Ive seen of WWII AAA - anything was rarely hit and if it was, there were thousands of shels in the air at the same time going after the same target. This would make field capture slightly more difficult and allow for greatly reduced realism IMHO.

"Mazz"
<--The Flying Circus-->

Kweassa · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2002, 11:34:30 PM »

I like Tac's idea on this issue.

* a lot of small calibre(.303) AI controlled acks
* a few player controlled 37mm acks

..

But ultimately no adjustment will stop people from complaining as long as the strat targets are airfields. As long as airfields remain as the most important targets, people will endlessly attempt fighter jabo attacks at low alt, and the problems with ack are bound to pop up(acks too good.. acks too dumb... whatever it is..). There will always be ack problems, and level bombers will always remain less effective, cumbersome, slow and useless.

Fatty · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2002, 12:35:28 AM »

Come on, the acks are a joke. If you're coming from anywhere over 10k you have no excuse whatsoever for being hit, you can literally watch the tracers take the time to form on you.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2002, 03:56:13 AM »

What happens when you drive a flak panzer or a manned ack? you will have a lot of chances to kill any enemy flying straight at you up to 1.2k yards (any speed), but little or no chances of scoring a hit at a fast plane flying left to right (or viceversa) at less than 500k yards, for example. slow moving targets will be easy to hit up to 1.2k yards, but fast moving ones will be almost impossible to track. Even more considerations:
- You cant aim vertical.
- Your angular speed is slow, so you cant stop firing at North and start inmediately firing South.
- You can hardly aim at night.
- Chutes will not be your primary target just because they are the nearest enemies to you.
- You are not going to aim only at the nearest target if another one is closing fast towards you.
- You cant aim through smoke.

Actually, the funny thing is that acks are much less dangerous if you just fly to kill them than if you just fly around them.

LePaul · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2002, 10:09:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fatty
Come on, the acks are a joke. If you're coming from anywhere over 10k you have no excuse whatsoever for being hit, you can literally watch the tracers take the time to form on you.

Fatty,

I have all kinds of films I'd love to show you where I'm in a heavy dug, diving down from 15k and 1 ping/hit takes a wing off or, I'm right back in the tower. If I'm flying something German, the engine is nailed first.

No whining, just absolutely amazed how many JFK bullets I'm taking

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2002, 10:40:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
If I'm flying something German, the engine is nailed first.

So, I'm not the ony one ...

Ripsnort · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2002, 10:56:18 AM »

There are several ways to defeat the AA. The last time I was shot down by AA is because I was stupid enough not to jinx/change direction on egress.

My biggest fear is, that if you make the AA any easier, then field capture begins to be that much easier...and suicidal fighters (newbies) that come in on a field with all AA up to strafe fighters launching would be encouraged to do it more so.

Fatty · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2002, 12:20:45 PM »

I want to die if I screw up a field attack. Swapping all the guns to .303 or even .50 so you get a dozen warning pings every time just isn't going to cut it for me. As it is you may get that anyway, depending on which gun is hitting you, but if it's one of the 37mm then yeah, it's not going to be a light strike.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2002, 12:28:37 PM »

Ripsnort, dont worry at all about AA being killed by newbies, they will never hit the VH and you will have that field full of flaks in the next seconds. It is funny to see how more than ten fighters try to deack as soon as possible a field in the hope of having an ethernal vulchfest, just to be erased by an orde of flaks almost inmediately

It is even more funny to see how them dive after the takingoff defenders with all the ack up.

jpeg · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2002, 09:59:33 PM »

IMO People are exaggerating or are just not smart about dealing with ack.
If youre going to attack something in the middle of a air field when all ack is up then you have a lot more chances of being hit. Start with the outer ones first. Not only that change direction often.

I regularly deack towns and help in deacking fields with no scratches.

Also if you start diving at 5k+ , (put on zoom if you have trouble aiming) and pull by around 2.5k you will not get hit.

I believe the acks should be strengthened, 1 or 2 .50 cal bullets should not be able to take it out.