how many 20mms on 109G-2?

[BlauK]

Originally posted by Tony Williams
20mm M-Geschoss weighed 92g and (in the MG 151) had a muzzle velocity of around 800 m/s.

CC.. thanks.

Maybe the Germans didnt provide such ammo to others. On the other hand that document is a post war 109G-6 manual. Could it be that M-geschoss was not available anymore at that time... or maybe the original German manual was written before  M-geschoss was used??

Just guesses....

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by BlauK


CC.. thanks.

Maybe the Germans didnt provide such ammo to others. On the other hand that document is a post war 109G-6 manual. Could it be that M-geschoss was not available anymore at that time... or maybe the original German manual was written before  M-geschoss was used??

Just guesses....

M-Geschoss was first issued in 1940, in the MG-FFM, so it was available from the start in the MG 151.

I'm not sure where the Finns would have got their ammo from. M-Geschoss did require a special manufacturing process, quite different from conventional shells, so it would have been difficult for another manufacturer to pick up without a lot of investment in new equipment and techniques.

I know that the French manufactured the MG 151 postwar (they used it until the 1970s) and it is still made in South Africa (Armscor GA-1). However, M-Geschoss ammo is not now made for it.

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine
guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website:
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[Kweassa]

I don't understand..

 Does this mean that the armament of 200 shells of 20mm
 was in Finnish 109s only, and German 109s used 150?

 Or the armament varied in option ranging from 130~200, and
 though max limit is 200, pilots would load it with only 150?

[BlauK]

No... I gathered from this thread that every G-2 had 200 rounds and G-6 had only 150 rounds.

FAF G-6 instructions were lower than the max of 150 likely just to avoid jamming the ammo box too full.

[Wilbus]

In IL2 it is weird, the 109 F2 20mm are far less powerfull the then ones in the G6, bug? or could it be that maybe the shells for the F2 were smaller (not the rounds, just the shells)?

[butch2k]

The F2 is equiped with the MG151 in 15mm not a 20mm version

[Wilbus]

Sort of explains it.

[Kweassa]

.. so , to make the final testament on this thread.

 Can we all say the dreaded word.. (shudders.. ooooh)?

 ..

 can we simply, officialy, firmly, strictly
 but politely say the 109G-2 20mms ammo count is... * Ba-Bum *

 WRONG?



ps)  and if it is WRONG... will it be FIXED??

[Kweassa]

I thought this deserves a punt

 

[funkedup]

Yep knock it down to 115 rounds please.

[fats]

Just noticed that the Finnish manual says a 500Kg bomb, AH have that or is it a 500lbs one?


// fats

[julle]

"Some G-6s were /R6 but most had their wing cannons removed for manuvering reasons. Only a few pilots especially asked if they could keep them.. and liked the firepower too  I think they were standard German stuff."- BlauK

Actually Kössi Karhila said that the Rücksatse 6 DIDN´T effect manouvering! He shot down a P-51 in a 109G6/R6 after several 360 deg circles. The Mustang was about to stall and had to loosen his turn so the 109 could make the shot. The R6 was a bit slower and didn´t climb as well as the regular 109´s.

http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/faf.html

julle, CO =Flak Panzer Oilers=



http://www.eztargets.com

[AtmkRstr]

jule, I read a similar story about the wing guns. He said that they did effect turn performance, but to a much lesser degree than popular belief.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

I'm curious, did they change the size of the ammo boxes when they went from the 151/15 to the 151/20?

If not, I don't see how they could fit 200 20mm rounds into the same box as 200 15mm rounds...

If they did increase the size of the ammo boxes...
-SW

[butch2k]

The case size did not change so it was not a problem at all fitting them in the same space. The F-2/F-4/Gustavs use the same ammo box of 200 rounds of either 15mm or 20mm.
But it seems usual not to have uses the full complement of ammunition, maybe due to increased jamming, i'm still investigating this point.