Author Topic: Make the late war monster more rare!!! (Read 1990 times)

Soda · « **Reply #75 on:** March 13, 2001, 09:51:00 AM »

Exactly correct Nashwan, the SpitV doesn't have a chance to dictate the fight unless the 190 decides to hang around and turn with him. Not many people will do that, so the 190 leaves, grabs and comes back. I don't have too much problem with that though I wish the 190 would stay around to die

The problem is, the SpitV isn't that bad a plane, but in this MA it is totally out-classed and anything that was lesser than a SpitV wouldn't have a hope. The quality of the pilot is key, and some luck.

Honestly the SpitIX suffers the exact same problems as the V here, it is also easy to escape from and it can't escape from anything in the MA at low-mid alts over than the zero.

This thread shouldn't really focus on the SpitV though, it's more a pattern of what would happen to any earlier war plane in the MA. With the addition of the non-perked D9, La7, P-51B, etc, it just made the MA even less friendly to earlier war planes. I couldn't see how a number of planes that people are lobbying for could survive if they aren't also later war monsters.

-Soda

Nashwan · « **Reply #76 on:** March 13, 2001, 10:01:00 AM »

Exactly. The perk point system is supposed to stop late war uber planes from dominating the area, but to the Spit V and IX and several others like the 202, the P51, Dora G10 La7 etc are late war uberplanes.

Skysix1 · « **Reply #77 on:** March 13, 2001, 10:06:00 AM »

Since I am still kinda new to AH this may not be as good of an idea as i think it might be but I will present it.

What if the aircraft availability were related to the "state of the war" between resets. for instance:

The map just reset because the Knights just won again

and all the early war aircraft are the only now the only ones available. The aircraft in the air get there guns shut off automatically so that the pretty much have to land and grab a new plane.

When say 2 fields are taken by any side a new planeset is added to EVERY side. This way everyone still has the same planes/vehicles to choose from.

When say 2 more are taken a new planeset is added to EVERY side again.

and so on and so on till the Knights win and reset it again

the number of bases taken to increase the planes available could be tweeked or messed with each "war or battle"

and remove the perk points or use them for something other than keeping low perked people out of certian planes. Maybe just make a certian number of a type of plane available at each airfield and when there gone you gotta wait till factory builds new ones.

------------------
Chuck Perry
"Sky61"

lazs · « **Reply #78 on:** March 13, 2001, 12:06:00 PM »

well... I gotta admit.. the british plane lovers really got screwed this version. It basically made the planes they have obsolete. Every plane added is better than any of the brit planes except the Tempest and the Tempest.... Is a perk plane. no one, or very few, will have the chance to get good in it or fly it often.

So, they are left with Spits against both P51's the D9, the lag7 and some other faster planes. Even my poor ol Dhog isn't at as big a disadvantage as the poor brit's. I know that I can simply put the nose down and run away when I blow a pass or two on a Spit.

The new system has made the bottom 10 planes useless or nearly so. Even with the people that know them the best flying them they die at 2-3 times the rate that they would if they had simply clicked on a more capable plane. even the diehards will soon tire of this.
lazs

hazed- · « **Reply #79 on:** March 13, 2001, 12:25:00 PM »

I gotta say laz youre right.

I would agree to perk the dora if they perk the f4uc and p51d and niki as long as they remain cheap say 10 perks.
this would mean you only fly them when you really want to and not constntly because everyone i flying them.
Since 1.06 i have hardly touched the 190a8 or a5 and ive stopped flying 109s almost totaly but im sure this is because i want to learn the new stuff and i will settle back down to the old favourites(g2,190a8) once the novelty wears off.
we need to give it at least 1 tour before we can get a true picture of aircraft balance in MA i think.But if perking any 1944 plane to say 10 perks and any 1945 models to 50 perks or more for real rare examples(eg f4uc,ta152s,arados).this would make 1943 planes the uber-freebies

and pre 1943 planes competative and high scoring .1943 planes Med scoring and 1945 low scorers.
maybe we could have the rolling perk set?
1 tour 1943 and later perked next tour 1944 and higher perked etc etc?

hazed

hazed

hazed- · « **Reply #80 on:** March 13, 2001, 12:26:00 PM »

I gotta say laz youre right.

I would agree to perk the dora if they perk the f4uc and p51d and niki as long as they remain cheap say 10 perks.
this would mean you only fly them when you really want to and not constntly because everyone else is flying them.
Since 1.06 i have hardly touched the 190a8 or a5 and ive stopped flying 109s almost totaly but im sure this is because i want to learn the new stuff and i will settle back down to the old favourites(g2,190a8) once the novelty wears off.
we need to give it at least 1 tour before we can get a true picture of aircraft balance in MA i think.But if perking any 1944 plane to say 10 perks and any 1945 models to 50 perks or more for real rare examples(eg f4uc,ta152s,arados).this would make 1943 planes the uber-freebies

and pre 1943 planes competative and high scoring .1943 planes Med scoring and 1945 low scorers.
maybe we could have the rolling perk set?
1 tour 1943 and later perked next tour 1944 and higher perked etc etc?

hazed

hazed

Ripsnort · « **Reply #81 on:** March 13, 2001, 12:29:00 PM »

Hmmm..had a great low level sortie near enemy airfield with a Spit V...shot down a 190 Dora, LA7 and a N1K.

mx22 · « **Reply #82 on:** March 13, 2001, 01:17:00 PM »

Rip,

We all know that it's the pilot, not the plane

And a lot of luck of course

P.S. Spits are outclassed by current AH set.

mx22

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Hmmm..had a great low level sortie near enemy airfield with a Spit V...shot down a 190 Dora, LA7 and a N1K.

[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 03-13-2001).]

Ripsnort · « **Reply #83 on:** March 13, 2001, 01:20:00 PM »

Yep, it is, but thats the Main, if you want historical, thats what the SEA (check six, Snap shots) are for! (Still hoping for a HA one day!)

BTW, ,most of my kills are due to luck, since old age, vision, hemmor....uh, you get my point!

Soda · « **Reply #84 on:** March 13, 2001, 01:36:00 PM »

The Check Six and Snapshots are fine when they are on, but for those of us who drop around the MA just to play, well, it doesn't help.

How can anyone expect a SpitV to be in the same arena as the 190D9 (free from perks), it's insane. It's like throwing meat to the lions. It was hard enough in 1.05 to have the SpitV compete against the likes of 109G10's and P-51D's, now it has just gotten insane.

You have to compare everything to the lowest denominator (probably the C202 right now) for perking or it isn't worth doing it at all. I honestly considered that there would be classes of perks based on capabilities and performance in the MA with everything above average (however that was calculated I don't know) as a perk, though possibly an very small one. It would have made some deterrent to constantly flying a later war bird while not restricting it's use like in the case of something like the Tempest.

-Soda

Ripsnort · « **Reply #85 on:** March 13, 2001, 02:02:00 PM »

Soda, when the perk points dry up (remember, folks have been harvesting these for over 2 months now!)...I think you'll see less Perks flying...I think you'll see the Dora's, Chogs, N1K's etc. perked too, an a lower rate, as this post calls out.

I still fly the earlier war stuff, sure I die, but when I do live, the perk points make it worth it, and there aint nothing better than an LA-7 thinking it can turn with your .202 !

lazs · « **Reply #86 on:** March 13, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »

rip... i know a guy that can beat your spit 5 in a TBM. does that mean that the TBM is a better or even competitive plane?

The Spits just aren't worth flying for the average player. they really have nothing to offer any more. they have been rendered obsolete for all but a few and even then... barely. I have been lucky in the DHog but i certainly would not use that to prove that it is competitive with the newer planes.

Face it... The new release has chopped the bottom out of the plane set for the most part. The average player has less planes to chose from not more.
lazs

Fishu · « **Reply #87 on:** March 13, 2001, 03:26:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nashwan:
2 Spit Vs spot a lone 190. What does the 190 do? Run away
2 190s spot a lone Spit V. What does the Spit V do? Pray
In real life, most sensible pilots only engage when they have an advantage. With the 190 v Spit that is an option. If you're in the Spit you engage only when the 190 chooses, unless you start out with an energy advantage.
Fishu, if the 190 pilot doesn't want to run from the Spit V he has another option. Outclimb him, and when you have the energy advantage use it to attack him.
In real life the Spit V was outclassed in late 41. In AH it is expected to fight against planes from late 44. It is not capable of doing so effectively, and the same can be said of several planes in AH.

Well, I know that..
but those spit V's sure does like to climb with 190A's in AH too much to do any good.
Has to be initial advantage or spit just keeps climbing with you in AH.

I should know this pretty well

Anyone can do it with advantage, but at coalt meet, spit will do bad for 190 if it doesnt run in AH.
(and I've seen them spits climbing with 109's... yay)

Ice · « **Reply #88 on:** March 13, 2001, 04:51:00 PM »

We all are simply lab rats led around by a system devised to force the community to behave in a matter which the developers feel will insure their greatest chances for the success of their business. Guess I can't blame them

I really don't care about perks...RPS is the best way to involve the community in all aspects of WW2 aviation and air combat.

I'm curious about one thing...how will the perk system allow for the introduction of early war aircraft...in order for this to take place, the community will have to behave as HTC has intended thru the introduction of the perk system and get involved in the pursuit of perk points...flying early war planes in an effort to gain PP to gain access to late war superplanes?

I honestly can say that I'm still having fun, however, this is the craziest thing I've ever witnessed in all the years I've played these sims...if you don't believe it, just re-read the dozens of PP threads

------------------
Ice
13thTAS

It's not the Big that kill the Small, but the Fast that kill the Slow!

lazs · « **Reply #89 on:** March 14, 2001, 08:46:00 AM »

Ice... that is the question that I have been asking from the beggining. We need a seperate area whithin the arena for early rides if we don't have an RPS. the area idea is better IMO since it wouldn't force anyone and offer all choice all the time.
lazs