Author Topic: Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!  (Read 678 times)

Offline Tac

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Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2001, 10:40:00 AM »
"Thats the way I see gunjams.. you can keep them. As long as there is really no viable way to escape unseen ( ie...like in reality without neon icons..inflight dar...) then gunjams would not be an asset but another source of endless wining "

Easy, remove enemy icons and add gun jams  

I like the gunjam idea, if RL planes had guns which were highly prone to jamming during high-g firing, I say put it in! Pony wings do rip off at high speed high-G turns dont they not? KEEP YOUR STINKING PAWS OFF MY PONY WINGS!      

Offline lakc

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Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2001, 10:49:00 AM »
Gunjam? Naah had enough of him in the last sim.   <G,D,R>

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56th FG 63rd FS
Lake City
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Offline Jigster

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Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2001, 11:06:00 AM »
Don't mess with gun jams. Go with the much more linear electric trigger system for the guns.

In other words, pull the trigger for over so many seconds, and you discharge the plane's electric system to the point where the is not enough power to activate the remote trigger, and can't fire the gun anymore. Allow for propper recharge time via the motor and your back in business.

Then we could work in horsepower drag from the generator kicking in and out  

- Bess


Offline Pongo

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Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2001, 12:23:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick:
oh yeah the melt your barrel buggaboo. It takes more than the amount of ammo in the magazines of these planes to do that. You will not melt nor burn out the barrels of the guns in the planes by holding down the trigger. It takes more than a couple hundred rounds per gun to do that. The ammo counters in this game show total ammo counts. That is not what is in each gun.

Now keep yer freaking paws offa my guns in the game. You want to do the gunjam thing then use the dice.

Mav


You keep saying that Mav. Cause you have experiance with the M2 hb. Thats not what is in these planes. The barrel on the M2 in the planes is consderably lighter and I believe they did have to worry about burning it out with long bursts. Some of these planes carry 400 rpg. That is a long burst.
Also the gun bays on these planes where very constricted compared to what you are used to I bet. Gas build up in the bay could cause lots of problems. I doubt they were designed to vent the whole ammo load at once.

Offline Jigster

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Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2001, 04:11:00 PM »
With most of the US planes, the power drain from the remote trigger motors was usually enough to prevent burn out anyway...after about 8 seconds, if you let off the trigger they would not fire again for several more seconds while the system recharged. I'd be more worried about cook off versus burn out  

So Mav, after how many rounds in the M2 HB was a barrel change recommended (instruction wise)? I'm betting there was usually 2 spares always available.

Offline Maverick

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Gun jam? Yes, PLEASE!
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2001, 10:48:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo:

You keep saying that Mav. Cause you have experiance with the M2 hb. Thats not what is in these planes. The barrel on the M2 in the planes is consderably lighter and I believe they did have to worry about burning it out with long bursts. Some of these planes carry 400 rpg. That is a long burst.
Also the gun bays on these planes where very constricted compared to what you are used to I bet. Gas build up in the bay could cause lots of problems. I doubt they were designed to vent the whole ammo load at once.

Not a bad question. Here are a couple of points.

I spent most of my time with the cupola mounted M85. Pretty much same gun but lighter barrel and a much nicer quick disconnect for rapid barrel changes. Dealing with the cupola was a pain for clearing the gun and loading the ammo tray. As long as the gun was kept well lubed (half drowned it seemed at times) it worked just great.

Aircraft have a couple of advantages. The gun is not in a sealed environment. It was set into the wing but had a pretty fair amount of air passage from the muzzle and gun port. This leads to exceptional cooling capacity particularly when compared to a ground mount gun. The sleeve the barrel is mounted in allows for space around the barrel so the barrel can move during firing. The barrel and bolt recoil together for a short distance before the barrel stops and the bolt continues, stripping the empty out of the chamber and shoving a new round into the gun.

Gasses as well as brass and links were vented from the bottom ejection port. Since this port was open all the time there is a good flow of air.

Normal infantry MG teams had 2 barrels. The one in the gun and a spare. They aren't light so there is a limit as to how many can be carried. The 50 BMG is a heavy MG so they typical infantry squad isn't going to have one. They used the 30 cal mg's instead.

Barrel changes are dependant on a couple of factors. The amount of firing done and what is the enemy situation. You might have a hot gun but if you need to fire you do so. The infantry guns were the ones that had the reputation for burning out barrels, sometimes firing until the darn thing drooped.

AS far as this game is concerned. the only guns I can see firing for extended time periods are the PT boats and buff guns. I have yet to fire a lengthy sustained burst at another plane, including a buff simply because the darn targets just don't stay still. The ride of choice for me is the P51D, B and the F6F. All use 50's and generally require more ammo than any cannon bird in the game to down a plane. Not once have I fired the entire load in one burst.

I repeat my original position. There is no need to write a bug like random jams into this game. There are no random engine failures, low octane gasoline options, routine breakdowns of aircraft systems modeled. I think that those would be much more of a prevalent problem in real life than gun jams. No squadron, wing or group ever had 100% operational aircraft during WW2. We do in this game as that is what people pay for here. They pay to play a game based on WW2 combat. They don't pay to have the plane they fly randomly suddenly stop working properly as an attempt to induce additional "immersion" in the game play.

How long would you play if at least a couple times an evening your plane quit working spoiling your mission or sortie. Probably not very long. I can imagine the whining from that happening.

The main thing that people pay to play for is the combat against live players not a computer AI. Not random failures. If there is no combat you might as well play MS flight sim # whatever by yourself.

Mav
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