Author Topic: Panzer IV durability in AH?? (Read 490 times)

Naudet · « **on:** February 04, 2002, 06:54:05 AM »

Things like the following, slowly make AH ridicolus.

I attacked a couple of PZR 1st with a YAK-9T than with the hvy cannon hurri.

The result of hits with the big guns was close to nothing. It took and average of 8 37mms to get a kill or 7 40mms to get a kill. And in those cases the kill was credited cause the guy left his PZR, not that i killed him.

And now i took a PZR out for a run, and 1st i am attacked by and F4U and WOW! he cripples me with his guns in the 1st pass, with a few pings. Same today with a spit that hit me with some hispano rounds.

Now why the tank buster cannons on the Yak and the Hurri dont do it?
I always attack the PZRs from behind. But the F4U and the Spit simply came in from front or side.
There are happening so many weird things lately, that we cant really speak of a sim anymore.
More a what will happen next scenario.

Vermillion · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2002, 10:38:14 AM »

Agreed. Its not very fun to watch your Panzer be disabled by machine guns.

Something is still very wrong with ground vehicle damage modeling.

ljkdern · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2002, 11:27:55 AM »

I agree too. This area needs some attention.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2002, 11:38:15 AM »

In the other hand, I need a tremendous ammount of hits from the two 7.7mm of the 190A5 to damage an enemy plane while a panzer is able to kill my plane with only a few of 7.7 hits.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2002, 11:55:10 AM »

But MANDOBLE HTC say that GV guns are not overdone, but they wouldn't be lying of course.....

ergRTC · « **Reply #5 on:** February 04, 2002, 12:38:25 PM »

No kidding. Last night I was doing some tank battles. Had a panzer, attacking multiple targets. First time out, spit comes in and cripples my turret with one pass. FIne. I am used to it. Reup. Get in the heat of battle. M8 scooting by, takes two 75mm AP shells to blow up (last time I was in an m8 I think a 202 took me out without a problem). Next target is another panzer. 8 hits on it. Finally just left it sitting there smoking, cause it was not gonna die. How many shells before it stopped shooting at me? 4 shells. I remember losing my turret with one spit pass earlier.

I am trying to imagine what a tank would look like after getting hit with 8 75mm rounds. hmmm.

Next target Is a flack panzer. Same thing happens, still cant blow it up after dumping nearly 10 ap shells into it. Whatever. Go on to the base. Empty the rest of my shells into panzers upping from the base, but they all ditch before I can put more than 4 shells into any one of them. Out of shells, what do i do now? Oh yeah, charge a flack panzer with my turret mg. 700 rounds later, guess what! I blow it up. I then proceed to knock out a m16 with my pintle gun.

This is all screwed up HTC.

Oh in the end, i ran out of ammo (everything) got hit three times by a enme panzer and blew up.

what did I do to deserve that? Is there some vodoo ritual I need to be performing?

Vortex · « **Reply #6 on:** February 04, 2002, 01:54:34 PM »

I'm not sure how this all works either. Although something is indeed amiss. Couple cases in point...

The last time I went after a PIV with my Yak9T I recorded 14 37mm hits on him with no kill (note I only fire the 37mm so no mg pings here). I've had a few previous encounters like that as well. Accordingly I don't bother using the 9T against GV's anymore as its pretty much useless. A shame as that's what it was built for.

The other puzzle is taking an Ostwind against a tank. Just had one of these encounters today and took out a tank very fast. After I got range on him he was dead in 5-6 hits. Obviously these were all side hits too rather than the roof hits from the Yak example above.

That's the confusing part. Vehicle against vehicle the 37mm cannons are deadly. Plane against tank, however, they seem pretty impotent. Granted we've got different weapons here however both are 37mm, and the NS-37 in the Yak was a good anti-armour weapon.

So I'm not sure what's up there either. Something definitely seems amiss though.

I've yet to try this. Has anyone had success taking out tanks with 20mm cannons and mg's? Making them go boom that is, not disabling them.

Vortex

bozon · « **Reply #7 on:** February 04, 2002, 03:11:37 PM »

Quote

I've yet to try this. Has anyone had success taking out tanks with 20mm cannons and mg's? Making them go boom that is, not disabling them.

in R/L tanks do not shatter to pieces when hit. a disabled tank is a "destroyed" tank. Look at pictures or scrap metal of tanks destroyed in war and you'll see they look pretty intact (on really "good" hits the turret flies off). a hit even by a modern 120mm cannon does not always kill the crew, but still they tank is concidered "destroyed" if abandoned.
so in AH i think there should be some damage criteria which would give the "kill" to the attacker without blowing up the tank or having to wait for the guy to "ditch" (since you'd probably get shot down or land by then).

Bozon

MrLars · « **Reply #8 on:** February 04, 2002, 03:27:16 PM »

I'm sure HT will tweek the gv damage model one of these days...nothing more frustrating than hitting a tank or Osty with 10+75mm AP with no visable damage...that happens all too often in AH IMO. A quality product like AH shouldn't have these glaring abnormalities...again, IMO.

ergRTC · « **Reply #9 on:** February 04, 2002, 04:02:18 PM »

here here mr lars.

I think there should be a sign for when the tank is pretty much worthless. Either the turret gos pop, or maybe flames start to poor out of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hitech, is this possible? If in fact you are keeping the tanks around after 10 shells cause its more realistic, I would appreciate a sign for 'you can stop now, little johnny has no more fight left in him'

mipoikel · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2002, 04:07:19 PM »

When you are shooting attacking plane with pnzrs 7.7mm you shoot that plane from ahead. It is coming right to you and radiator is first to take hits.

When you are using planes 7.7mm you are shooting mostly from behind and thats not as powerful.

I thinks thats the reason. (or part of it)

Tac · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2002, 04:57:44 PM »

Spit, P38, Mossie, any hispano armed plane just has to hit a pz4 from the very top or from behind and the pz4 will lose the turret.

50 cals kill the tracks on the pz4.. as they should, the tracks are not as armoured as the tank hull

The 7.7 mm gun on the Panzer 4 IS pumped up. Make one pass at the tank, get hit with a short burst and that mg WILL turn the attacking plane's pilot into confetti. If it doesnt blow your engine to the land of NOD first. Or both. But HO a ju88, or sit on a ju-88's tail with THREE of them mg's firing at you and you wont get that effect. Go figure.

Wulfmen · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2002, 06:43:26 PM »

Ahhhhhhhhh iam not the only one

for long time a posted same stuff, but w a bit Luftwobble feeling. Other freaks called me a Luftwhinner

at one day my Pz get shot down from a A6M w only MG rounds!!
Yepp he asked me what he doing, he was out of Guns and have only MGs left. I get no ping before but i was killed from a damn zero

and after this i die many times more in the Pz or Osti get killed from MG Planes

Yeppp thats Realism

or Pure FUUUUUUUUUUN

ergRTC · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2002, 09:13:17 PM »

update... just in from the front...

so I was sitting there near v23 today. Some of you may have seen me. Hangin with the panzer. First plane that attacks me takes the engine out (spit I think). Okay fine.

Next plane takes one trak, next plane takes the other. What happens then? I rack up 12 kills using my main gun and the little mg pintle turret.

Now, i think I only killed 2 planes with the pintle, and one was a ju88 that I used the turret gun on. The rest I just pinged and later they died of other reasons (like biffing it as they tried to strafe me). I sat there for 1 hour, waiting for somebody to kill me. After I took out 4 ground vehicles, I just gave up, .ef and ate supper. I guess the voodoo was too strong that time. Darn silly.

Naudet · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2002, 06:44:20 AM »

OK i see i am not alone, but now i want to know who can explain the following paradoxon:

If i attack a PZR he is always very very tough to kill, equal to the plane/weapons i use.

But on the other side, if i am in a tank, i am the easiest kill for everyone around with a "pistol".

Hehe, maybe there is some kind of 1st and 2nd Class AH player, the ones that get tought planes, far ranging weapons and so on, and the other ones get the paper planes. That is actually my feeling now for the last 4-5 weeks. It seems, that equals to the equitment used, i sit on the short end and that makes AH terrible frustrating.