Author Topic: AAR: HQ raid (map issue)  (Read 222 times)

Offline Dinger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1705
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« on: February 03, 2001, 04:27:00 PM »
somehow the nits had succeeded in discretely steaming TG20 west of the Rook's main island.  As it was heading NW through sector 5,7 NathBDP and Ripsnort organized a strike mission on the HQ, involving just about every piece of blue steel imaginable (Hawgs with 75 fuel and bombs, F6Fs with DTs for cover and a TBM as an extra target).  As we approached the launch time, the carrier was in sector 5,7 7.  Two pilots, hoping to beat the FPS rush, tried to take off early -- the first one four minutes before the scheduled launch time.  They spawned on the deck, and after repeated admonitions on channel 2 we got them back in the tower.  In each case, when they spawned, the sector counter in 5,7 revealed their presence.
At the appointed time, some of the planes launched, and the friendly sector counter in 5,7 maxed out.
Some launched later -- I don't know whether automatically or not. I had to manually launch my bird.
After takeoff, we headed NE in a massive stream to the HQ.  I was behind the first group but fairly close to the front.  We climbed to 10,000 feet and levelled off for the run into the HQ.
Resistance was light and disorganized, but it was sufficient to harass our pilots and distract them.  The escorts turned back to go after the F4U that dived into the middle of the stream; then a stream of 109 G-10s made passes at just about everybody. All of these planes started above the formation.
I put my bombs on target, then stayed over the target area to provide CAP.  I strafed the HQ some more, and destroyed another building in the target area.  I tangled with some 109s.  Then, with no ammo in the box, I headed back to the CV with minimal fuel.  I came in steep, hit hard, caught the last wire, and the bird screamed to a stop.  2 seconds later the engine died from fuel exhaustion.

The HQ was levelled, and secondary strikes were conducted in the area.

I'm afraid this story does not have a happy ending.  Numerous persons accused us as a whole of cheating by flying off the map, or by running the carrier off the map.  Some took it quite personally.
Let me clarify the issue at hand:
Outside of the sectors on the map, the sector counters do not work; friendly units show up as dots, as do enemy units if they're within radar range.  Since enemy units produce no sector counter, flying off the map is rightly considered cheating (or more accurately, "gaming the game").  It uses a known shortcoming of the system to procure an artificial advantage.

To the best of my knowledge, at no time were any units involved in this raid off the map; heck, there wasn't any need to be anyway: we had so many people coming in so fast, nobody could have organized an effective defense.  In any case, we only climbed to 10,000 feet.  The advantage of going off map would be to reach a stratospheric altitude before running in on the HQ. But even this advantage is of little use to dive bombers.  If we wanted to cheat, we'd have taken the CV off the map, gotten TBMs, climbed to 35,000 feet and level bombed you guys.

The most cogent argument I've heard is that the fringe of the map, which runs through the western part of sectors 5,X, is "off map", and sector counters do not work there.

Well, they do work there.  Here's a section of a screenshot of 5,7 I took right after I trapped.
 
4 dots are off the fringe; if only these were registered by the counter, it'd be only two blocks long.  Instead it's maxed out as it's indicating the dots on the fringe as well (and the sub-500 traffic arriving and departing the CV).

Sorry, the fringe does not impair functionality of the map.

Offline Dingy

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 71
      • http://www.33rd.org
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2001, 05:15:00 PM »
Yup.  Was a good sneak attack.  Also an interesting attack sending those F6s and F4s low on the deck due E on the gridline to attack 38.  But there was one problem.  The 33rd were out in force (well ok there were only 5 of us  ) looking for the carrier when we spotted the low force.  

Gritz was first to engage and locked up the cap.  I then spotted them heading E and proceeded to attack them with Zigrat and Cavalear.  I think Nath was the only one to reach the target  

MUHAHAHAHA! <S> Nits

-Ding

Offline Jigster

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
      • http://www.33rd.org
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2001, 06:48:00 PM »
Dinger, I think the reason it shows up from your POV is radar originating from the CV (since it has it's own).

Just a guess, but eh.

------------------
 Moo! to fanatics, Neigh! to everyone else.
 -- Bessy
   
Dirty Turd Poop Group www.33rd.org

Offline 214thCavalier

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1929
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2001, 06:54:00 PM »
From my point of view the only questionable part was how the hell did ya get the CV there so soon after the reset ???
It seemed to happen very quickly and we was defensive virtually from the reset.
If for some reason the TG spawned there in your hands at reset then mebbe that needs looking into.
On the other hand if you say you steamed it there for real in the time from reset then i guess i was enjoying my time so much that time just "flew by".
If you genuinely steamed it there in real time from port then congrats on keeping it under control until launch time.
It was fun while it lasted  

Offline DrSoya

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 51
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2001, 07:27:00 PM »
At reset the CV did not jump from the location it was at, to a new location.

The knits yet again got stuck in the SE corner after reset; Task Group 20 was knit before the reset, and stayed knit after the reset.

TG20 was already entering sector 6.7 (around 6.7.3 I think) when the game was reset (we had TWO TGs near A38 about 15-30 minutes before reset, one North from which the attack on A38 was launched, and one South, that was sent on a Western course). Nath sent it on a NW course to 5.7.2, then North from there, admonishing all knits NOT to take off from its CV but to wait until in range of the rook HQ.

It's only AFTER the launch of the mission that the Nath sent the TG on the white fringe as seen on the above screenshot.

We (well, Nath  ) sneaked the TG behind the rook lines fair and square; no cheating was involved.

(Although I'm not happy we sent the CV in the white fringe after launch of the mission.)

<S> Dingy, 33rd and other rook pilots! It was a fun fight at the HQ. (I was one of the F4U-1Ds.)

------------------
DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (First Polish Fighter Wing)

Offline 214thCavalier

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1929
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2001, 07:47:00 PM »
OK that explains how you got the TG in position so quickly    
And you just took advantage of the respawn position as you should have done.
But i still think the TG should not have been so deep behind our lines after game had reset, still you played what you were dealt and we all had fun in that scrap.
That was one hell of a advantageous position for a TG on reset tho.

Not to make light of it but it was like pearl harbour revisited.

[This message has been edited by 214thCavalier (edited 02-03-2001).]

Offline Dinger

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1705
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2001, 08:41:00 PM »
Radar only gives "dot" information.  Sector counters function independently.
The fact that the artists decided to fringe the edges of the map doesn't impede the map's functionality.

It was fun as a mission, and while the accusations of foul play are probably just a witness to its effectiveness, they really annoyed me this time.

Offline Jigster

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 107
      • http://www.33rd.org
AAR: HQ raid (map issue)
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2001, 02:13:00 AM »
Dinger, to clarify, we couldn't see the sector counters. I was OVER the fleet at the time in a P-38, getting shot at by the ack. This was after the fleet was off the map (I wasn't in the arena for the first raid). This was when the F6's *tried* to hit 38  

My plane icon (the white thingy) didn't even show up in the white trim. My friendly marker wasn't showing up to Gritz and Ding, who were about a half sector away, nor could they see each others, or mine. The sector counters didn't show up either, until I zoomed in. And since there is no way to use the insert/delete zoom function (as far as I know it only works where your Icon is located?) you can't see what's in the clipped sectors.

I don't consider it cheating or anything, but just a bug, because it's obvious the Knits were seeing something other then us, and nothing can be done about that. Just making you aware we weren't seeing the same thing  

------------------
 Moo! to fanatics, Neigh! to everyone else.
 -- Bessy
   
Dirty Turd Poop Group www.33rd.org