Author Topic: I was thinking of the future BoB setup and... (Read 1961 times)

Lephturn · « **Reply #30 on:** February 11, 2002, 02:23:55 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steven
I just want to chime in and say I see nothing wrong with Karnak polling those who value the CT for what they may want in a BoB set up.

I think this is the wrong approach. I think we should be polling the General newsgroup to see what the "regular" folks would be interested in flying in the CT. Otherwise we just cater to the vocal minority who wants uber-realism (read high difficulty), but we've already seen that those folks don't account for more than about 10-20 per night.

This isn't a scenario... so don't try to make the #'s look right. I don't think you should. If we want people to actualyl fly this thing in decent numbers, you have to make their favourite planes available to them to try out against their LW opposition. Even perked one point, or only available from rear bases, will cause folks to just log out and go the the MA instead IMHO.

The more limits you place on the CT, especially in regards to the planeset, the fewer people there will be flying there I think.

hazed- · « **Reply #31 on:** February 11, 2002, 08:17:30 PM »

you know what? The thing im most worried about is whether the spit 1a has hispanos?

this is how i see the BOB setup going if the spit hasnt got cannon which i beleive it didnt(not sure) and im pretty sure the hurricane also only used 303s in the BoB, We will see the spitfires trying their usual turn and HO tactics vs cannon armed me109E4s and bf110C4s and they are going to lose the majority of them.

We do not behave like the real pilots im afraid.Most german planes would attack dive away and return home relying on superior numbers to beat the british down who flew in crazy small formations of @12 aircraft vs sometimes 70+ 109s!! The RAF continued to use tactics which were pretty crazy.
In AH 12 fighters matched up against 50+ would be an absolute hoot

To start enforcing perks on the spits will be a mistake i think.
We can only simulate the fighting in CT and no matter how much some of us, me included, want to fly just like 'they' did it just aint gonna happen with most flying alone and doing their own thing.

What WOULD be cool would be BOB for a week then on a given date and time(last day before map change?) we would have one huge battle where we can spend our perks!! Once you ran out of perks you are out of the battle

could be a lot of fun and a chance to impose limits of usage on those planes that were more rare.

e.g. if during a week in CT the average player earns 20-30 perks start the battle with hurricanes at 3 perks and spits at 7 and start it.The players could choose more 'lives' with the hurricane or less lives and more performance with the hurricane.

Better still before each battle reset perks to 30 for each player and see if we can have a real ATTRITION WAR

Karnak · « **Reply #32 on:** February 11, 2002, 08:47:44 PM »

hazed-,

The Spitfire MkIa is armed with 8 .303s.

There were about 30 Spitfire MkIbs built and those had 4 .303s and 2 Hispano MkI 20mm cannon, but the cannon suffered a horrible jam rate and the fighters were taken out of service.

I would be truely shocked and disappointed if HTC gives the MkIb, or even the option for the MkIb's armament.

To be a BoB Spitfire it must have 8 .303s as its armament and suffer negative G induced engine fuel starvation.

The same goes for the Hurrican MkI.

Nashwan · « **Reply #33 on:** February 12, 2002, 09:16:08 AM »

I agree no cannon armed Spit Ib.
However, I would like to see the 109E1, with it's 4 MGs and no cannon, which served extensively during the BoB.

Eagler · « **Reply #34 on:** February 12, 2002, 09:56:14 AM »

ya know, everything else equal, you take away the Brits superior dar, which CT does as both are set equal and the brits stolen decoder ring (Enigma machine) they used in WW2 which gave them the same info as top GE generals got in real time, the RL BOB would have ended differently. Those two items gave the Brits the upperhand without which history would have been changed...

Steven · « **Reply #35 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:29:04 PM »

<>

Lephturn,

That's pretty much what I meant. Anyone who would like to participate here. However, this should never be an MA because we already have one and we must accept that there will be times when someone can't find his favorite ride in here. But I see nothing wrong with polling the masses to see what they want in here understanding this isn't the MA.

To all: I logged into the CT with a squadmate last night and once again the LW side was hurting for numbers. I actually don't really enjoy flying the Axis aircraft and it strikes me that the majority of my time I spend flying LW or Axis in the CT. (Though my scores show much better when I fly Allied.) I'm not sure I should have contributed to the desparity of numbers in the CT or I did the right thing just leaving for the MA.

Nifty · « **Reply #36 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:59:52 PM »

Actually, the BoB was going well to Goering's plans. The idea was to breakdown Fighter Command so that the Germans would have complete air superiority for operation Sea Lion. The LW was hitting airfields and radar stations heavily every day, and taking out as many Spits and Hurris in the air as was possible. One day (in August i think, I don't feel like looking it up) one of the German crews was off target and dropped on or near London. This incensed Churchill, who ordered a strike on Berlin. Wellingtons took off within 24 hours (I think?) and dropped on Berlin. Hitler commanded Goering to shift the focus from Fighter Command to London. With the pressure off of the RAF's fields, they were able to somewhat regroup (mentally, if not physically). After intense bombing of London, Goering sent over a huge force, which was matched by Dowding basically throwing everything Fighter Command had left. This seemed to break the resolve of the LW pilots, as the winter was fast approaching and they had not achieved air superiority. Sea Lion was postponed, and the BoB was over (even tho London was still bombed for some time.) Radar helped at the onset, but at one point, was the entire southern network of radar stations destroyed? (asking, cuz I don't remember exactly).

ya did the right thing Puke. I had absolutely no desire to fly a 109 or 190 last night. 95% of the time, I'd balance the numbers. Last night, I wanted to fly a Pony. (that in itself should tell you something was wrong with me!)

Nashwan · « **Reply #37 on:** February 12, 2002, 02:13:07 PM »

Only 3 radar stations were out of action for any significant length of time, and the gaps in the radar coverage were made good by neighbouring stations and mobile units.

The widespread belief is that the Germans were on the brink of destroying the RAF before they switched to London, and that they switched to London on Hitlers orders. That isn't really true.

Goering and Kesselring had both wanted to attack London for some time, believing they could draw the RAF into an all out defence of the capital, and destroy the British fighters in a few large battles. Hitler merely released them to carry out this plan.

Much is made of the unsustainable losses the RAF was suffering at the end of August and begining of September, during the Luftwaffe's attack on their airfields.

The fact is, the Luftwaffe was still losing as many fighter pilots as the British, and training fewer replacements.

The RAF began the BoB with huge reserves, over 110% of front line strength in reserve, and was producing fighters at more than twice the rate of Germany. RAF reserves shrank during the Battle, but from late July on, there were never less than 1000 Hurricanes and Spitfires available.

The RAF also began with many pilots in reserve, a total of around 1300 pilots, compared to around 1000 for the Luftwaffe.

The Luftwaffe began the Battle with almost no reserves, and aircraft production lagged so badly front line fighter strength declined throughout the battle. From a high of nearly 1000 109s at the start, by early September the Luftwaffe had around 700 109s operational.

So, the figures for early September were RAF: 1100 Hurris and Spits, 1300 pilots.
Luftwaffe: 700 109s, similar number of pilots.

The Luftwaffe put on an all out effort in the last week of August, flying 3900 109 sorties, sompared to the previous high in a week of 3000. By the first week of September, serviceability had dropped to around 75%, and the number of 109 sorties declined
to 3200.
The following week they switched to attacks on London, and sorties went down much futher.

The RAF in the same period maintained a sortie rate of 5000 per week, and actually improved serviceability rates during the period, from 90 to 92%.

The Luftwaffe were on the verge of winning the battle much the same as a marathon runner who puts on a sprint is on the verge of winning his race. If he can keep up the sprint for 10 miles he will win, but of course he can't sprint for that long.

Quote

and the brits stolen decoder ring (Enigma machine) they used in WW2 which gave them the same info as top GE generals got in real time, the RL BOB would have ended differently. Those two items gave the Brits the upperhand without which history would have been changed...

Radar was vital, but Enigma intercepts played verry little part in the BoB. Most German traffic from airfields went by landline, not radio, so couldn't be picked up anyway, and what little was sent by radio and decrypted played no real part.

Karnak · « **Reply #38 on:** February 12, 2002, 08:49:25 PM »

I remember reading about a wargame run at Sandhurst or Westpoint about the German invasion of Britain.

The idea was that the Luftwaffe did beat down the RAF and secured control of the air for the invasion.

The problems the Germans ran into were that Fighter Command pulled back and held its remaining forces ready for a final effort to defend Britain. The Germans invaded and the the Royal Navy, taking some losses, slammed the door shut while being covered by the remainder of RAF Fighter Command. The German forces simply were not able to break through the might od the Royal Navy to supply and reinforce the initial invasion force. and after 1-2 months the British were inventorying their new equipment that had "Made in Germany" labels.

The Germans simply weren't prepared or equipped for a cross Channel invasion was the conclusion.

Oldman731 · « **Reply #39 on:** February 13, 2002, 08:08:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
The Germans simply weren't prepared or equipped for a cross Channel invasion was the conclusion.

Agreed. People who think the Germans could have conquered England through invasion are fantasizing.

- oldman

hblair · « **Reply #40 on:** February 13, 2002, 08:35:11 AM »

I believe Operation Barbarossa was the biggest nail in the Axis coffin. The two fronted war was impossible.
Early in the war the U-boats were taking a huge toll on shipping. GB was feeling the pinch. Thank the Lord Hitler was so foolish as to think he could conquer Russia and the United Kingdom.