G forces / structural limits

[MANDOBLE]

Just curious about how are they modeled.

Several cases:
190D9 trying to catch a diving Spit, at some point, magic, the spit goes directly from diving to vertical climbing and looping. Trying to follow and, surprise:
1 - Total blackout.
2 - Wings gone.

190D9 pursuing a diving spit from hi alt:
1 - No way to catch due violent shakes at hi speed.
2 - Loose of control, ruder and aileron trim required to exit the dive.
3 - The spit continued the dive with impunity and good elevator control as the pilot confirmed.
Same effect against diving F4U1D.

262 pursuing a diving La7, when the La7 saw distance was starting to reduce, upppps, go vertical in a second. 262 recovering much more smoothly and... ...both wings gone (3 similar examples the same day, 3 262 broken) and with no structural sounds at all.

190A8 pursuing a Spit at medium speed in horizontal flight. Spit goes vertical in half a second, 190A8 simply cant follow and, even with a much smooth angle variation, total black out again.

Ta152H, well, better dont talk about it ...


My conclussions:
- Average Spit/La7 lives in total blackout half of his flight time  
La7 and Spits are made of some kind of extraterrestrial material, allowing them to have extraterrestrial structural limits.

- D9 critical mach is well bellow La7, F4U or Spit (any kind) ones. As a side note, I have better control at hi speed diving with 190A series than witn 190D9.

- Germans used chewing gum to attach the wings to the 262 body and used same technique for the Ta152H.

[Pepe]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE

- Average Spit/La7 lives in total blackout half of his flight time  

Wasn't Axis the "Dark Side"????

Cheers,

Pepe

[Wilbus]

Yeha noticed it too, not to talk about Nikis near outdiving TA152's from 15k to the deck, TA152 compressing at 600 while Niki only get a bit stiff rudders (see my film I posted in the General forum).

Agree though.

[HFMudd]

This is just speculation from a newbie, but could it be a lag issue?  What I am thinking is that on the client side you might be doing a nice low g pull-up.  The server on the other hand is extrapolating you moving along a different path and when your position is updated by the client the server treats it as sudden and violent manuver.  Snap!  Off go the wings.

I suck.  I suck bad.  But I do have a cable connection and do a lot of BnZ in a FW190A-5.  So far I have not had any problems with sudden breakage of bits.  I'd offer to try a 262 but it is not too likely I'll have perks for it anytime soon.

[Wilbus]

Hey HFmudd, all structural, ammo and everything that has to do with FM is on your machine only, sever doesn't have anything to do with it, if you pull a 3G turn in a plane, it doesn't matter wether you have a great connection or a connection that updates once every 5 minutes. 3G's will be 3G's for you no matter what.

However, the server might show the enemy plane (if he or you are a bit laggy) to make a sharper turn then he really does, due to some delay, but not that much sharper.

[Raubvogel]

I've noticed the same thing. 190A series does have better high speed handling than Dora in AH. Not sure if its supposed to be like that or not. I'm not sure how some of those planes pull straight up like that from 450 mph. I've seen *alot* of P38s do it lately. As far as Ta152 wings.....don't get me started...

[Widewing]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Just curious about how are they modeled.
3 - The spit continued the dive with impunity and good elevator control as the pilot confirmed.

I have pulled the wings off of a Spitfire on two occasions. So, it is possible. However, I do agree that the Spitfire is less inclided to control lockup. However, it should be noted that the Spitfire does have a rather high critical Mach due to its wing design. Nonetheless, there does appear to be some unusual structural limits dialed into a few of the aircraft.

My regards,

Widewing

[Tac]

Raub: The AH P-38 will not go past 500mph if below 28k. Ever. Not even in a 90 degree dive with wep on and trimmed the whole way.

Your 190 will easily by doing 550 on its dive, the 38 is compressed, but the magical elevator gets trimmed to the top, engines are cut and the 38 almost instantly loses 100mph just by nosing up from the dive and putting its nose level with horizon. Your 190 oth would barely lose 50 mph if it leveled with horizon.

The P-38's structure was very rugged, some pilots even returned with their tail booms BENT 10 degrees from the G forces. I really cant see a 190 doing the same (dorka wedgie! woot!).

However, I will agree with mandoble on the spit/zeke g-force thing. When I fly a spit or zeke I can turn extremely hard for a long, long time, being on the verge of total blackout to achieve the impressive turn rate. Those times my 38 is chasing a spit through a turn (above 300mph), the spit turns hard.. and I try to do a lag turn, but I almost completely pass out.. and im certainly pulling at least 2 or 3 g's less than the spit due to my lag turning. And yet the spit does not black out.

[Goth]

I am notorious (at least in my squad) for ripping off wings. I've noticed that my spits will rip off wings at 400ias in a flat turn and will not rip off at 500 in a pull out.

262, sneeze at 450ias and the wings are gone.

190's series, never had a problem with compression. So what if it vibrates horribly, the wings have always stayed on.

p51d's, dunno how I do it, but have ripped off the wings on those birds 5 times.

TA152 - have never landed one out of the 20 and some odd I have flown. Yet I'm the moron that continues to up one and ride that fuselage into the dirt.

To me the most durable is the 190. I could swear I've almost touched 575ias in a dive and pulled out successfully.

[Lephturn]

I have never, ever pulled the wings off a Jug.  You can get the Jug to really crazy speeds and keep the wings on it.  It has to be the toughest bird in the game in this regard.  I think your safe under 600 IAS in the Jug.

[Karnak]

Spitfires were not renown for shedding wings.  The Spitfire's wing structure was actually quite strong.  The only accounts I have of Spits shedding wings is in hard pullups after dropping 1000lbs of bombs in which the 1000lbs of bombs failed to release.

[funkedup]

Tac, part of going past critical Mach (what computer game people call "compression") is a huge rise in drag.

[Urchin]

Was the Ta-152 known for ripping its wings off?  They have always seemed unbelieveable frail to me.  I've ripped em off in a 4G pull at 400mph before- no groaning or noises, just BANG BANG, off with your wings.  I've lost several sets of wingtips doing that too (in the 152).  The only planes I've ever ripped the wings off of are the P51 and the Ta-152, and it is a damn sight harder to do it to the P51 (to the tune of I was blacking out trying to pull out of a 550mph dive both times in the P-51).

Maybe the Ta-152s wings are intentionally weak, like the Me-262's engines?  I don't know why that'd be the case though.

[Karnak]

Urchin,

I cannot speak to the Fw190 series.  I can only speak to the Spitfire and P-51 on wing ripping.  Spit was not known for it, the P-51 was.  I defer to those who are familiar with other aircraft as to the wing ripping on those aircraft.

I was just pointing out that the following is not nessacarily true:

Fw190 = tough = no wing ripping
Spitfire = not tough = wing ripping

It is more complex than that.

FWIW, I don't imagine that the Fw190 series had a problem with wing ripping.

BTW,  It was fun to meet you in combat last night.  Got to demostrate the Mossie a bit.  Its not the worst fighter in the game.