Spare the Rod, Spoil the Johnny

[Eagler]

What’s missing here is the same attribute that is missing in way too many homes these days, DISCIPLINE.

======================================

The Making of Johnny Walker

 THE ROAD TO TREASON
 By Jeff Jacoby
 The Boston Globe

 December 13, 2001

It isn't the case that the parents of John Walker -- the Marin County
child of privilege turned Taliban terrorist -- never drew the line with their son.

True, they didn't do so when he was 14 and his consuming passion was
collecting hip-hop CDs with especially nasty lyrics.

And true, they didn't put their foot down when he announced at 16 that
he was going to drop out of Tamiscal High School -- the elite "alternative"
school where students determined their own course of study and only saw
a teacher once a week.

And granted, they didn't interfere when he abruptly decided to become a
Muslim after reading *The Autobiography of Malcolm X,* grew a beard, and
took to wearing long white robes and an oversized skullcap. On the
contrary: His father was "proud of John for pursuing an alternative course"
and his mother told friends that it was "good for a child to find a passion."

Nor did they object when he began spending more and more time at a local
mosque and set about trying to memorize the Koran.

Nor when he asked his parents to pay his way to Yemen so he could learn
to speak "pure" Arabic.

Nor when they learned that his new circle of friends included gunmen who
had been to Chechnya to fight the Russians.

Nor when he headed to Pakistan to join a madrassah in a region known
to be a stronghold of Islamist extremists.

His parents also didn't balk when he went to fight in Afghanistan -- but
that, at least, they didn't know about: Walker hadn't told them. Perhaps
by that point he had learned to take their consent for granted.

Only once, it seems, did Frank Lindh and Marilyn Walker actually deny
their son something he wanted. When he first adopted Islam and took
the name Suleyman, they refused to use it and insisted on calling him John.
After all, he had been named for one of the giants of our time: John Lennon.

Their refusal must have amazed him. For as long as he could remember,
his oh-so-progressive parents had answered "Yes" to his every whim,
indulged his every fancy, permitted -- even praised -- his every passion.
The only thing they insisted on was that nothing be insisted on. Nothing in
his life was important enough for his them to make an issue of: not his
schooling, not his religion, not his appearance, not even whether he stayed in
America or moved -- while still a minor -- to a benighted Third World oligarchy
halfway around the world. Nothing. Except, of course, their right to call
him by the name of their favorite Beatle.

Devout practitioners of the self-obsessed nonjudgmentalism for which the
Bay Area is renowned, Lindh and Walker appear never to have rebuked
their son or criticized his choices. In their world, there were no absolutes,
no fixed truths, no mandatory behavior, no thou-shalt-nots. If they had
one conviction, it was that all convictions are worthy -- that nothing is
intolerable except intolerance.

But even in Marin County, there are times when children need to hear
"No" and "Don't." They need to know that there are limits they must respect
and expectations they must try to live up to. If they cannot find those
limits and expectations at home, they are apt to look for them elsewhere.
Newsweek calls it "truly perplexing" that Walker, who "grew up in possibly
the most liberal, tolerant place in America . . . was drawn to the most
illiberal, intolerant sect in Islam." There is nothing perplexing about it.

He craved standards and discipline. Mom and Dad didn't offer any.
The Taliban did.

Even when it was clear that their son was sinking into Islamist
fanaticism, they wouldn't pull back on the reins. When Osama bin Laden's
terrorists bombed the USS Cole and killed 17 American servicemen,
Walker e-mailed his father that the attack had been justified, since by
docking the ship in Yemen, the United States had committed "an act of war."
Lindh now says that the message "raised my concerns" -- but that didn't stop
him from wiring Walker another $1,200. After all, says Dad, "my days of
molding him were over." It isn't clear that they ever began.

It undoubtedly came as a jolt to his parents when Walker turned up at
the fortress near Mazar-i-Sharif, sporting an AK-47 and calling himself
Abdul Hamid. But the revelation that their son had enlisted in Al Qaeda
and supported the Sept. 11 attacks brought no words of reproach -- or
self-reproach -- to their lips.

Walker deserved "a little kick in the butt" for keeping them in the dark
about his plans, his father said, but otherwise they just wanted to "give
him a big hug." His mother, meanwhile, was quite sure that "if he got
involved with the Taliban he must have been brainwashed. . . . When
you're young and impressionable, it's easy to be led by charismatic people."

Yes, it is, and it's a pity that that didn't occur to her sooner. If she and Lindh had been less concerned with flaunting their open-mindedness
and more concerned with developing their son's moral judgment, he wouldn't
be where he is today. Walker is responsible for his own behavior and he
will pay the price the law requires. But his road to treason and jihad
didn't begin in Afghanistan. It began in Marin County, with parents who
never said "No."

[Kratzer]

Yep.

Some people think that kids should be treated like adults, and that it will make them good adults if they do so... but kids aren't adults, and need to be treated completely differently - not harshly, and not as lessers, but differently...  encouraging free thought in your kids is important, but so are teaching and discipline.

[midnight Target]

Rerun

[Sandman]

I'll grant that the Lindh's permissive style of parenting left John looking for more discipline.

I don't agree with the heading though. Corporal punishment doen't necessarily equate to good discipline. My children are remarkably well behaved and we are far more strict than many of the parents of my children's friends... but we don't hit our kids.

They're your kids. Whack away if you want, but don't kid yourself into thinking that a good beating is all you need to effectively raise them.

[StSanta]

Mm, but I'd argue discipline is possible without using a whip.

None of us four children of my mother and father have been spanked. Admittedly, I've turned out a bit weird. Oldest bro has a cand. scient in math and in physics. Second oldest has one in comp. sci. Younger sis is almost done as a doc.

Perhaps the topic is just a saying. I agree with Eagler fully that what is sorely lacking today is discipline. But I disagree with the idea that  regular physical punishment is a good form of discipline.

[mrfish]

i agree that jonny taliban is a twit (i mean what guy has hyphenated name for cryin out loud - might as well call yourself betty)

but the artical is ripe with the typical bs that flies right over our heads every day:

"And granted, they didn't interfere when he abruptly decided to become a Muslim after reading *The Autobiography of Malcolm X,* grew a beard, and took to wearing long white robes and an oversized skullcap. On the contrary: His father was "proud of John for pursuing an alternative course"

- so the problem was that he was easily influenced or that he was a rich white kid trying to find identity as a wanna be black guy?  i think the author should just be clear - i mean would it have been ok if he read the bible and started wearing a cross? is that ok for an all american boy whereas adopting islam is somehow shady?


Nor did they object when he began spending more and more time at a local mosque and set about trying to memorize the Koran.

again....can you imagine the reaction if the article had said "nor did they object when he started spending more and more time at a local church trying to memorize the bible"

or how bout this one:

"Nor when he asked his parents to pay his way to Yemen so he could learn to speak "pure" Arabic.

- well duh, everyone know that the acceptable languages for red blooded americans to study are german, italian(if you are super daring), or french! those other languuages are for those dirty foreign types.

what a stupid article. i hate the little dipshishter too and i think his parents are spineless weenies BUT this article suggests that he'd be ok if he listened to top 40 instead of rap, adopted christianity instead of islam and picked a nice white european culture to study instead of an arab one.

typical populist appeal piece.

[Kratzer]

Sorry I didn't say that too - I also think there is no reason to whack yer kids.  It's just a cheap way of showing power.

[Raubvogel]

I spanked my kids occasionally when they were younger. Never with anything more than the open palm of my hand. By the time they were 3-4 there was no reason to consider spanking them. If you ask anyone that knows, they would tell you that my kids are 2 of the most well-behaved children they've ever seen. We get compliments all the time about it. My kids are now 11 and 7, and I haven't touched either of them for years. Can't even remember the last time I did, and they probably don't either. They behave not out of fear, but out of understanding. They know discipline, they are respectful, and they know when they've gone too far. There is a difference between beating your kids and smacking their bellybutton when they're younger. A good bellybutton smacking never hurt anyone. I wouldn't change one thing in the way I raised my children, and if I had another child, you can bet they would get their bellybutton smacked when they needed it.

[Animal]

So discipline means not allowing your children to listen to hip-hop, reading malcom x bio, and learning languages?

Please.

[Kratzer]

Though I agree with the message here, and think that his parents were indeed too permissive, treating their child as an adult and letting him do whatever he wanted, I do see your point about how he makes his point at times, Animal.  That does nothing to change my view of the issue at hand.

[Animal]

I know.
But if the child is growing to be a love muffin, he will be so wether he reads the bible, or the coran.
I dont believe parents should restrict what their children read or listen, as long as they teach tolerance and respect for other's beliefs and choices.
Johnny Taliban, The Tard, made his own choices.

I rather have to make MY choice on whats right or wrong, than to be forced on what others thing is "good" or "evil" (wich is relative to all families anyways)

The outcome of my choice is MY responsability and mine only.
His outcome is his responsability, and he must face the wrath of the christians!




(sorry for all the edits, i'm at work and its hard to write this while helping some tard on the phone connect to the internet)

[Gunthr]

LOL, Animal, now I know what the support dudes are doing when they say, "Hold on, please"



Yep, Johnny boy is gotta learn the hard way because mom and dad didn't do their job and impart principles and ideals, and teach him the difference between right and wrong.

Now, society has to do it for them.

[Kratzer]

Ah... the ol' nature vs. nurture argument!

Once we are adults, the choices we make are our own, and even as children, this is the case to a lesser extent.  We can't hold his parents responsible for his actions - he will need to pay for his mistakes himself.  We CAN however, look at the parents and say "This likely could have been avoided had you actually acted like parents."

I truly believe that parenting is more important than genetics, and how people raise their children is an enormously important factor of how those children will act as adults.  Obviously, some children overcome terrible parenting to be successful adults (I'm talking character here, not 'success'), and some children with terrific parents turn out to be amazinhunks.  By and large, though, I think it is true.

[mrfish]

yeah but the article's author presumes a correct answer and a correct path....of course he doesn't give it to us because he doesn't need to!

it's already deep in our consciousness from years of programming - you fill in the blanks, it shouldn't be hard to come up with a socially acceptable, top 40 consistent scheme for lil johnny:

here's examples, based on the article:

johnny: "mom i want to become a moslem"

mom: "no johnny, that's bad, you'll be a terrorist someday if you start being a dirty raghead,  but as an alternative i offer you____________"

johnny: "dad. i'm gonna go to the mosque and study the koran - see ya"
 
dad: "now wait just a minute sport, that's wrong, and since i want to parent you correctly, i say you should_____________ instead."

johnny: " damn nigga, these beats is raw as F%$#! they be SLAMMIN and shi&%!"

dad & mom: "johnny, we find that music objectionable, we think you should listen to something more like______________ instead."

johnny: "hey ma and pa you like this new lacy moslem hat and white robes?"

mom and dad: "actually no johnny, you can't wear religious identifiers of any kind."

or, alternatively:

mom and dad:  "no johnny, you can't wear moslem clothing specifically or take a moslem name specifically, but if you need to be religious, it would be ok if you followed________________and wore _________identifiers like a _______________."

johnny: "yo moms, i think i want to go to yemen and learn arabic at the source"

mom:  "no johnny, you shouldn't want to study arabic because _____________and people in yemen are __________, so as an alternative i suggest you study___________."



in short, if "not guiding" him was wrong, then what SHOULD they have counseled him to do? i mean, if you are a critic, then let's hear what ma and pa should have done in those crucial moments. is there one answer? what is it?

well they should have told him to go watch some tv and pick which fast food joint had the most tits, babies, puppies, sports stars, witty cutesy sayings and explosions in their commercial and then they could have all gone to the winning corporate payment station and choked down slop together as a happy clone family.

[Fatty]

The editorial is equally as silly as saying, "If parents did not insist on disciplining their children, there would be nothing to rebel against, and they would all be more well behaved."