Author Topic: Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?  (Read 1576 times)

Offline Steven

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2002, 08:52:27 PM »
I think a few of the planes have their k/d ratio skewed anyway.  It's my opinion that a good majority of the time people are taking Spits, LA7s and N1Ks from capped bases in a noble but suicidal attempt to defend a base.  I don't think this type of fighting and dying impacts say for instance the P-47 all that much nor the F6F-5 for the reason of it's lower spectrum acceleration.  Those K/D ratios are way cool, but they don't tell the whole story.  

I'm not sure why I'm not flying the F6F-5 anymore even though it's my favorite WW2 aircraft historically.  I think it might be because it's becoming popular or something, so I'm concentrating on the F4U-1 this and the last tour.  The greatest thing I learned from the F6F-5 was when to engage and disengage (run away!)  I have a feeling the same concern is not applicable when flying an LA7 (though I've never once flown the thing) just based on experiences against it in the MA.  You don't just take a Hellcat into a furball and start turning and burning but rather must be more cognizant of position and always thinking a few steps ahead.  After some time in the F6F-5 and F4U-1, I've become more of an opportunist and try to make my kills swiftly and with as little effort as possible.  Sorry about that to those who don't like that style, but I pay my $15/month too and I prefer it that way.  Besides, if I'm successful, you can always up again within seconds.  

Long live the Kittie!

Offline SpinDoc1

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2002, 11:35:30 PM »
I flew the F6F on a homework break tonight, and let me tell you, I was highly impressed.  The thing flew like a marvel! I am not a great player by any means, however in this one sortie I got 5 kills and 3 assists. I don't know if it was my lucky day or what, but I think I have found my new ride!
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Offline fd ski

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2002, 12:19:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
Just going from memory, I am pretty sure the F6f shot down more aircraft in the PTO than any other allied aircraft.


Canoe armed with a crossbow could have done just as well against IJN in 44...

Offline WildBlue

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2002, 03:01:23 AM »
Guess I'll chime in here. Yes, we (squad) obviously have chosen the kitty as our ride, not because it is "uber" in any way, but because it is a well rounded bird that does nothing spectacular yet does everything reasonably well. One strong point is obviously it's dive... love it! And it does regain "e" fairly well with a simple quick dive. However, as my (poor) stats will clearly show, you can't just hop in one and expect tons of easy kills unless you are already good anyway. Sure, it's an easy bird to fly, but also an easy bird to die in. I won't insult anyone's intelligence by pretending to know what any plane was supposed to do in the real world, but comparing it to other planes in the game, it seems the F6 is really nothing to get worked up about. Just a nice all-around ride. Of course, I could be a bit biased, hehe, considering it's what our squad flies. So when you see that big blue thing streaking through a cloud of enemies with guns blazing, just chuckle, shake your head, and mumble about those lunatic squids and their demonkitties! :D all

Offline Alpo

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2002, 08:17:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKEagle+
Stats are what you make of them, but notice that there are about 20 non-perk planes that have a higher K/D than the F6F.  



AKEagle+



hmmmm...  PERK THE HURRICANE IID!!  
 :D

F6f is one of my favorite jabo rides... of course this means I get shot down by uber ack (PERK THE ACK!!) and a bunch of my kills are vulches ;)  I have to admit, I couldn't fly it without spinning it before the "fix".
SkyKnights Fighter Group -CO-
R.I.P.  SKDenny 02/03/1940 - 02/19/2012

...

Offline Ripsnort

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2002, 08:38:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pollock
I think we need to hear what Mathman has to say on this subject he is probably the best stick regarding the hell kitty


With ALL due respect to Math (one of the best), but Cavalear could run circles around anyone in the Hellcat.

Offline Ripsnort

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2002, 08:42:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nath[BDP]
Well, the F6F did spawn the most US aces.


Only because by that stage of the war, where most kills were registered, the US was fighting 16 yr old Japanese pilots that were lucky to have 12 hours of cockpit time prior to being put out on the front lines.  Think "Mariana's Turkey Shoot".

Offline Shuckins

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2002, 07:57:10 PM »
If I may inject a note of reality here, I would like to point out that very few of us "arm-chair" aces have ever, actually, flown a plane of any kind.   We have formed opinions about individual fighters of World War II based on the things that we have read, discarding facts along the way that would tend to disagree with them.  Arguing the relative merits of these aircraft with other "fliers" of AH is a great way to spend an afternoon.  But denigrating specific aircraft because they do not measure up to our "nebulous" standards is just plain silly.  ("The P-109 has to be the uber plane because it looks so COOL!")

Sorry guys.   There is no uber plane.  There never was.  Each of these fighters were built to meet specific performance envelopes.  To one degree or another they were all successful in the roles for which they were designed.  The Nik was designed with the specific purpose of besting the F6F.  Great speed and climbing performance were designed into it.  With the Hellcat and the Corsair decimating Japanese airpower the need for fighters such as the Nik was overwhelming.  However, the Nik was not a fighter that the great masses of undertrained Japanese pilots could safely fly.  Saburo Sakai (If you don't know who he was, Shame on You!) described the Nik's handling characteristics as being treacherous.  Many young pilots were killed by it during their familiarization flights.  Only an experienced pilot could safely squeeze every last ounce of performance from it.

Inexperienced Hellcat pilots, on the other hand, had no such problems.  The docile handling characteristics of the F6F allowed them to push it to its' performance limits with impunity.  This was its greatest fighting quality, undoubtedly contributing to its sterling kill to loss record, the best of any Allied fighter to tangle with the Japanese.

Comparing fighters is like comparing apples to oranges.  The one that you prefer depends on you personal tastes.   I champion the Hellcat, not because it possessed mythical performance, but because it is often unjustly maligned.  Why is it easier to believe, for instance, that the P-47D, which had a Pratt and Whitney R2800 of 2300 hp, the same as the F6F-5, and which weighed nearly a ton more in unloaded condition, was capable of 430 mph at its rated altitude, and the Hellcat was only capable of 386 mph at its' rated altitude.  Elementary physics says that it is not possible.  In  bulk and weight, the F6F takes second place.  Either the flight data on the P-47 is in error, or that of the F6F is in error.

So, which is it?

Respectfully,  Shuckins

Offline funkedup

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2002, 08:17:14 PM »
The P-47 had a turbosupercharger plus a mechanical supercharger.  F6F had a two-stage, two-speed mechanical supercharger.  The turbo allowed the P-47 to make full power at very high altitudes where the F6F could not maintain full power.  At those altitudes, drag is reduced because of the thin air, and you can fly very fast if you can maintain full power as could the P-47 or P-38 (another turbosupercharged aircraft).  Also if you check the power ratings you will find that the water injected versions of the engine in the P-47D had more power than the F6F-5 even at low altitude.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 08:22:06 PM by funkedup »

Offline ra

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2002, 09:11:31 PM »
Weight isn't the major factor in determining maximum speed.  The P-51B used the same engine as the Spit IX, but was 1,500 lbs. heavier and much larger, yet was still significantly faster.  

The F6F was designed to be tough, easy to mass produce, and easy to fly off an aircraft carrier. Speed was never the prime goal in the design.  The Jug was derived from a long line of fast planes, speed was always the main goal of the designers.

ra

Offline fdiron

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2002, 09:48:28 PM »
P51 produced a few hundred pounds of thrust from its radiator.  Believe its called the 'Meredith effect'.

Heres another neat piece of trivia-  The F6f was not specifically designed to counter the Zero.  The F6f was designed when it was shown that the F4f could not sucessfully handle a larger engine. I got my information from an aircraft magazine, I think it was called "Warbirds".
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 09:53:56 PM by fdiron »

Offline Kweassa

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2002, 10:24:26 PM »
The info I have says the design on F6F began before the US entered
 war in 1941. The main reasons being the F4Fs were   outclassed  by
 the aircrafts of Germany, which the US considered a potential threat.
 Putting together the data gathered by combat experience between
 lend-leased F4Fs and 109s, the F6F went into design just 1 month
 before Pearl Harbor.

Offline Shuckins

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2002, 10:37:58 PM »
I am aware that the P-47's engine was rated for performance at higher altitudes.  I still maintain, nevertheless, that the F6F was capable of speeds greater than 400 mph at the rated altitude of IT's rated altitude.  Corky Meyer, one of Grumman's chief test pilots maintains that it did, and if anyone would know the truth, HE would.

As further proof, I offer the following.

In July of 1944 a captured Zeke 52 was offloaded at San Diego and flown to NAS Anacostia where the Technical Air Intelligence was located.  It was later flown to NAS Patuxent River, Maryland, where comparison flight tests were made with Allied aircraft.  Reports of these comparisons were sent to units in the Pacific that were encountering this new type of Zero.  The Weekly Intelligence Summary, Allied Technical Air Intelligence Unit, South East Asia, listed the comparison data in a report entitled "Flight Trials of Zeke 52."

The report stated that the F6F-5 was faster than the Zero 52 at all altitudes, having the least margin of 25 mph at 5,000ft and the widest difference of 75 mph at 25,000ft.  Top speeds attained were 409mph at 21,600ft for the Hellcat, and 335mph at 18,000ft for the Zero.

The data was compiled by Technical Air Intelligence which evaluated the F4U-1D and the FM-2 and the main Army Air Corps fighters against the Zero 52 for the purpose of helping our pilots fly and fight against an agile and dangerous enemy aircraft.  I hardly think they had any axes to grind.

Respectfully,   Shuckins

Offline fdiron

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2002, 11:30:00 PM »
I heard that the airspeed indicator on the F6f was positioned in a way that gave faulty airspeed readings.  Wouldnt surprise me, aeronautical engineers were ignorant of many many things in the 30s and 40s.

Offline funkedup

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Is the F6F-5 the new Niki?
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2002, 11:36:43 PM »
They weren't ignorant of ASI errors, look at the charts Wells posted.