Author Topic: Please take a look at the GVs... (Read 314 times)

Urchin · « **on:** February 11, 2002, 09:06:38 PM »

As it is right now in Aces High, there is one GV that isnt, well, to be blunt, a piece of toejam. That is the Ostwind. The Panzer and M8 both seem to be made out of something with the properties of glass, shattering into little pieces when strafed by either Hispanos or .50 caliber machineguns. The M16 is just as frail (as it should be, it was open topped and had no armor, after all), but 4 .50 caliber machineguns just can't compare with the one hit wonder that the Flakpansie is. Both LVTs are useful, to a very limited extent, which I think is a good thing.

I would suggest the following-

1. Make the Panzer invulnerable to anything less than the 23mm mounted on the IL-2. Even though the 30mm on the German planes is a bigger caliber, they were not using AP rounds (to the best of my knowledge), and they should also be ineffective against tanks. Panzers should ONLY be able to be damaged by either the large caliber cannon carried by the 'tankbusting' planes (IL-2, Hurricane 2D, Yak-9T) or by rockets and bombs. Yes, I mean the tracks too. I know that in real life tracks were damaged by strafing. This isn't real life.

2. Do SOMETHING about the M8. It is utterly useless as far as I can tell. A single hit by just about anything from .50 caliber on up will disable all the guns on the vehicle. The 37mm popgun requires at least 4-5 hits on the Ostwind, as far as I can tell. Why was this vehicle introduced again?

3. Perk the Ostwind. It is absolutely absurd how many of these you will see in an average GV attack. Often, you will ONLY see the flakpansies, and nothing else. I think a 2-3 point perk, combined with lowering the ENY value to 5 or so would curb the population a bit.

4. Change the spawning points around a little bit. I personally would like to see 2 layers of 'advanced' spawn points. Obviously you would have the hanger, then one that is close to the enemies 'advanced' spawn point, then one that it YOUR 'advanced' spawn point on the enemy base. I would also randomized the exact spawn location of the vehicles, to perhaps somewhere within a 2km radius or so (placed so that no land GV will start out in the ocean though).

I understand that Aces High is primarily a game about planes. That is absolutely fine by me, in fact, that is almost always where I am. I would just like to see ground vehicles that at least serve some purpose- they DID use up time that would have otherwise been spent on another plane.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2002, 09:21:35 PM »

I totally agree in regards to perking the Ostwind... Or perhaps perk the ability to spawn at an enemy base with one.

They were a field defense vehicle, not an offensive weapon. Perhaps perks can help reinforce that. Some 5-10 perks to spawn near an enemy base should do the job.

AKDejaVu

Tac · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2002, 09:49:58 PM »

What the M8 needs is a handsome amount of smoke rounds.

Id say give it around 50 smoke rounds besides its own AP or HE ammo.

M8 is a fast attack medium tank, and in AH there is no cover per say... its almost impossible to get close to a flak, even less a pz.. smoke rounds would make it up nicely.

I agree on perking the flak. Its a fricken tank with 1 ping kill ability, no other vehicle, not even a panzer can stand against it.

Also to note: the 37mm from the flaktank kills buildings faster than M8's and PZr's HE shells. HUH?

Urchin · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2002, 11:21:48 PM »

Glad to see there is so much interest in how screwed up the GVs are. I think I've found the most useless unit in the game, bar none. The honor goes to the M8. It is very fast, and that is the only thing that is good about it. Yes, that is it. It's bad points include horrible armor and horrible guns. Anything it can do the M3 can do better, plus the M3 can carry troops or supplies. Plus I think the M3 is actually tougher.

JoeCrip · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2002, 05:30:23 AM »

I totally agree with pretty much everythign you have said. I am 100% for perking the osty. How many were made? about 20?. If a tank was made in that low of numbers, it should be perked. I'd say at any given time in the MA, there are more then 20 ostys up.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2002, 05:53:02 AM »

They were a field defense vehicle

Absolutely false, they were developed to mix up with panzers as aaa defense in mobile units. They had also AP and HE ammo and may be used as a very effective weapon against light armoured vehicles, structures and troops.

The main problem with this vehicle is that u cant aproach directly to straffe it and survive. But, can u survive a direct aproach towards a firing M16? again, not. If you attack them with bombs and rockets they become easy to kill, if you try to kill them with 50" or hispanos, you will dead.

The problem is not in the vehicle itself, the problem is in the endless spawn feature, no matter if they are Flaks or M16s.

ITOH, IMO, a flak can't sustain a single direct 75mm AP hit in the turret. Any 75mm AP hit in a M16, M3, M4 or LTVs should kill the vehicle. A bomb blast (even 50 kg bombs) near a M3 or M16 should also kill the crew.

Urchin · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2002, 11:23:27 AM »

Yes, as far as I know they were developed as a mobile AA weapon, designed to protect tank formations from airplanes. In Aces High the rolls have been reversed. The Panzer is a specialized weapon that is mixed in with the Flakpansie formation to protect them from the occasional enemy tank.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:04:06 PM »

And why is that Urchin?

Simple, u can pick up a flak and kill planes, kill panzers and destroy almost all the hangars at a field.

1 - 1 ping = aircraft kill means that flak is using HE ammo, right?
2 - Based on 1, flaks should not be able to damage a panzer.
3 - In any case, a flak should not be able to destroy a single hangar.

Same points may be applied to field ack killing panzers.

CRASH · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:13:22 PM »

Pz's and Ostis need their guns hardend, the only thing that should be able to kill one is another gv or an a/c hit with bombs or rockets or heavy cannon designed for tank bustin. Field or city ack shouldn't be able to kill them. Only a few HE rounds should be required to kill hangers, 40 is rediculous. All bases that become forward bases should be vulnerable to gv attack on every map except for historical pac maps. GV spawn should be randomized. I have no opinions on the other vehicles, I'll leave that for the rest of you all to argue.

CRASH

Raubvogel · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:27:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by CRASH
Pz's and Ostis need their guns hardend, the only thing that should be able to kill one is another gv or an a/c hit with bombs or rockets or heavy cannon designed for tank bustin.
CRASH

The turret armor on the Ostwind was just 25mm boiler plate. Wasn't even face-hardened.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:27:55 PM »

Quote

Absolutely false, they were developed to mix up with panzers as aaa defense in mobile units. They had also AP and HE ammo and may be used as a very effective weapon against light armoured vehicles, structures and troops.

Argue what they were "developed" to do all you want. What did they do in WW2? Everything I've heard says they were used for airfield defense.

AKDejaVu

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2002, 01:37:42 PM »

Argue what they were "developed" to do all you want. What did they do in WW2? Everything I've heard says they were used for airfield defense.

Ok, so an F22 is just a transport aircraft instead a fighter because all they do is to move the pilot from one point to another without seeing any combat. Well, no more comments needed about so absurd statement.

In any case, Ostwind served in the "Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" division during the Ardennes offensive.

Urchin · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2002, 02:52:23 PM »

A prototype Ostwind served during the Ardennes offensive- it was returned the factory undamaged.

This is mostly a punt to keep it up front.

MrLars · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2002, 03:35:36 PM »

IMO the most glaring problem is with the 75mm AP round. There is no way that an Osty, Panzer or any other vehicle should function after 1 or 2 hits at the most. Hell, I've regularly had to put 7 to 10+ rounds into them just to dissable them. As for the Osty, perk it for remote spawns only, let them be free for base defence. I drive GV's a bit and, when in a tank, having an Osty or two as escort is great, but using the Osty as a primary GV field attacker is silly. Effective but still silly.

mipoikel · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2002, 03:41:07 PM »

I have nothing against osties. It makes us to do some teamwork. If you are attackin vs ostie alone, you propably die. (in plane) If you do it with friend, ostie is easy target. Perk ostie? Ok for me.

If ostie is attacking to your town, dont care it. Ostie cannot capture anything. One day I was defending our field and there was several osties running to town. I didnt care them and I killed only M3's. After 8th or 9th kill I was bored and moved to another field. (that field was vulched also) BUT even if there was really many osties, they couldnt defend M3's. Bad shooters maybe...