Author Topic: Brave? (Read 1335 times)

easymo · « **on:** February 12, 2002, 01:43:28 PM »

Ted turner has,in a speech, described the 9.11 terrorist as brave. I have to belive there is a big difference between what he thinks the word brave means, and how most of the rest of us would define that word.

I would imagine that committing an armed robbery takes a lot of guts. Bank robbers get shot up on a routine basis. On the other hand, I have never heard anyone describe an armed robber as "brave".

Eagler · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2002, 02:01:23 PM »

TT's an idiot ..

Udie at Work · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2002, 02:27:50 PM »

I'm left with the image in my brain of ole Ted standing next to Hanoi Jane doing the tomohawk..................... .

Sandman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2002, 06:26:39 PM »

Bravery has little if anything to do with morality according to Merriam-Webster:

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Main Entry: 1brave
Pronunciation: 'brAv
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): brav·er; brav·est
Etymology: Middle French, from Old Italian & Old Spanish bravo courageous, wild, probably from Latin barbarus barbarous
Date: 15th century
1 : having courage : DAUNTLESS
2 : making a fine show : COLORFUL
3 : EXCELLENT, SPLENDID
- brave·ly adverb

Hmmm... Courage... nope... no hint of morality here either.

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Main Entry: cour·age
Pronunciation: 'k&r-ij, 'k&-rij
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English corage, from Old French, from cuer heart, from Latin cor -- more at HEART
Date: 14th century
: mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty
synonyms COURAGE, METTLE, SPIRIT, RESOLUTION, TENACITY mean mental or moral strength to resist opposition, danger, or hardship. COURAGE implies firmness of mind and will in the face of danger or extreme difficulty . METTLE suggests an ingrained capacity for meeting strain or difficulty with fortitude and resilience . SPIRIT also suggests a quality of temperament enabling one to hold one's own or keep up one's morale when opposed or threatened . RESOLUTION stresses firm determination to achieve one's ends . TENACITY adds to RESOLUTION implications of stubborn persistence and unwillingness to admit defeat

Gunthr · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2002, 06:35:23 PM »

Its an asanine thing to say in light of all the innocent lives lost. What a jerk.

easymo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2002, 07:01:53 PM »

If you belive your going to a place where you get 23 virgins, All you can eat buffet, etc. Where does the courage part come in?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2002, 07:03:01 PM »

Lets all ask why sandman is defending TTs choice of words?

10Bears · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2002, 07:13:12 PM »

That Ted Turner.. he's soooo politicaly incorrect!

Sandman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2002, 07:35:36 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Lets all ask why sandman is defending TTs choice of words?

Been there, done that.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2002, 07:40:33 PM »

Just as brave as those mighty Einsatzgruppen "warriors" as they put old Jewish women and children into churches and burnt them alive...... They knew the local partizans wouldnt be too happy so in effect they were commiting suicide to, right?

What a load of BS! But it's OK sandman we all know where your loyaties stand when it comes to Sept11. Allahu Akhbar? Root cause?

Sandman · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2002, 08:14:04 PM »

You don't know anything about me at all, Grunherz.

As to my "disloyality," I think that this would come as a surprise to the U.S. Department of Defense. I work for them and I am a veteran with 10 years of service.

Piss off.

Dinger · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2002, 08:37:16 PM »

uh Brave does have a positive connotation. Coming from Italian/Spanish "Bravo", it is used for behaviour that is socially approved.
Of course, those who read Manzoni recall that the "bravi" of the sixteenth century were thugs who terrorized the populace.
Still, Ted has confused balls with bravery. it certainly took balls to do something like that; it sure as hell wasn't brave.

Anyway, you guys should know by now that media figures are generally too stupid to be representative of any political position.

Sandman · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2002, 08:41:17 PM »

This just in... the English language is constantly changing...

I bet Ted didn't consult the 16th century dictionary before choosing his words.

easymo · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2002, 09:00:13 PM »

If they had any conscience at all (doubtful). It might have taken some sort of guts to murder all those people. As far as their own well being is concerned. I could not be less impressed. First of all, flying a jet into a building would mean instant death. Therefore fear of pain does not inter into it. If they were hopped up enough, on there superstition, to do it in the first place. Then they were dumb enough to belive they were going to paradise. And of course they could count on the media to make sure their names went down in history. This is a big bonus for nitwits. I don't see where brave, courageous, balls or anything else inters into it.
I once read about a man that drilled a hole into his head with an electric drill. Was he brave? Or just unbelievably stupid.

Gunthr · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2002, 09:18:38 PM »

I don't think it takes balls to commit suicide, especially when its over in a flash, and you are an Islamic on a Jihad expecting to become a hero at home and instantly go to heaven to be with 72 virgins. Its the culture.

Its also an appealing way to die for many of those who do not want to live anyway. Some people crave oblivion. Without any hard facts, I have a hunch that the divorced Palestinian female paramedic who blew herself up was one of these. Those individuals are people without the courage to face life. They want to die. "The cause" allows them to not die in vain.

Then there are the ones who apparently did not even know they were on a death mission, according to bin Laden referring to 911.

So you have those who are culturally brainwashed, those in despair, and those who are duped.

I'm not saying that fear doesn't exist in terrorists, and that
the resolve to overcome that fear isn't exhibited by some of them.

I'm saying its pretty simplistic to characterise terrorists as "brave."
I'm still scratching my head over that one.