Author Topic: Brave? (Read 1417 times)

Gunthr · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2002, 09:21:33 PM »

Just read your post Easymo. ~~We're on the same page~~

fd ski · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2002, 09:35:56 PM »

but aren't chirstians going to the loving God in wonderful heaven ? If so, what would be a bravery ?

Eagler · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2002, 09:37:28 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
This just in... the English language is constantly changing...

I bet Ted didn't consult the 16th century dictionary before choosing his words.

no as he was to busy consultin his wine glass ... he's a loser, an over the hill visionary now with more double vision than common sense... scary to think he IS the majority share holder in the company I now have over 16 years vested ...

Ya'll did see he later appoligized, well sort of...

Gunthr · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2002, 09:49:40 PM »

Fd ski, no our general culture is obviously different from Islamic culture. Suicide bombing and killing innocent civilians is not encouraged here.

Further, among Christians its considered a sin to commit suicide.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2002, 12:04:25 AM »

Sandman dont you feel ashamed when you defend unpatriotic swine like TT and when you support him calling murderers of innocent people brave? Do they teach you this in the DOD? I for one think you are lying about your military carreer, it's clearly a pathetic attempt to hide behind a supposed life of service while spewing filth about America. Why not just go for the gold and say you are a holder of the MOH......

And fdski your ever growing hatred and contempt for numerous aspects of decent western civilization is simply mindboggling. now you say all of Christianity is akin to the lunatic extremist fringe of recent militant modern day Islam. Why do you hate yourself and your culture so much? Were you abused as a child perhaps?

Wow somebody starts a thread about left wing USA bashing and all USA haters just jump out of the woods, and all of them are supposedly in the military.....

easymo · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2002, 12:40:33 AM »

"but aren't chirstians going to the loving God in wonderful heaven"

Damed if I know. Im not a christian. I do know that Mohammed led troops into battle often. Apparently he had no problem with killing. Jesus on the other hand said turn the other cheek. These simple facts seem to be the difference in our respective civilizations.

funkedup · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2002, 01:09:57 AM »

Considering Turner sponsors ecoterrorists, I'm not surprised he'd say something like that.

Yeager · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2002, 01:10:27 AM »

No bravery in forcing men, women and children to be vaporized, crushed, torn into bits, burned or made to jump 800 feet to their deaths.

Ted Turned is a confused man. To give those twisted suicidal people credit for bravery is high deceit in its gravest form.

There is no bravery here. Genocide is what you have here.
You also have the first attack that leads directly to WW3.

You folks had better make plans.

Y

Daff · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2002, 05:58:54 AM »

"Fd ski, no our general culture is obviously different from Islamic culture. Suicide bombing and killing innocentcivilians is not encouraged here. "

Could you please point out where in the Koran suicide bombing and killing of civilians are encouraged?.

Daff

-lynx- · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2002, 06:12:46 AM »

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Could you please point out where in the Koran suicide bombing and killing of civilians are encouraged?.

Can't quote the exact verse but it's somewhere near the jihad. That funny thing about physical extermination of all infidels (that is people with different beliefs, regardless of them being combatants or civilians). Is that clear enough? Alternatively, check the verse that puts out all the crap about going to paradise if you die in battle with infidels - all the stuff about virgins, free food etc. It doesn't specify whether an infidel kills you or you blow yourself up - you go to paradise. Full stop.

I'm not religious but at least in Christianity this particular eventuality is covered pretty solidly - suicide is a big no-no whether you do it alone or take a few muslims, hindus or sunworshippers with you...

Gunthr · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2002, 06:24:40 AM »

Daff,

My personal doctor, Saleem Haq, is Islamic. I need to make it clear that I don't believe that the majority of those believers are militant extremists. Especially in our culture.

Osama bin Laden could probably point out to you in the Koran the parts that say the killing of innocent men, women and children is permissible. He has said as much.

Any suicide bomber will also be able to point this out to you. I think its the part where its says you get 72 virgins...

(makes me wonder about that female Palestinian bomber

)

Sandman · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2002, 09:23:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Sandman dont you feel ashamed when you defend unpatriotic swine like TT and when you support him calling murderers of innocent people brave? Do they teach you this in the DOD? I for one think you are lying about your military carreer, it's clearly a pathetic attempt to hide behind a supposed life of service while spewing filth about America. Why not just go for the gold and say you are a holder of the MOH......

I don't recall supporting Turner's opinions. I simply stated that his choice of words were not grammatically incorrect.

Please, enlighten us all with the filth about America that I have spewed.

"Supposed life of service..." Nice troll. I'm not bitin'.

midnight Target · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2002, 09:48:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Lets all ask why sandman is defending TTs choice of words?

TT's choice of words may or may not be improper. It wasn't long ago there was a thread in here arguing how BRAVE Hector was when he knew he was going to die. Were the Japanese kamakazi pilots brave? Does the fact that the WTC was not a military target change the level of bravery needed to crash a plane into it?

And Grun....We should be free to discuss these things without being ridiculed and called a liar.

miko2d · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2002, 10:14:38 AM »

While I definitely consider TT a jerk, his choice of words in no way contradicts the standard English language the way it is defined in modern use or dictionaries.

But since there are many people who think that they can hurt a few dead terrorists by maiming their own language, I have a compromise for you:

There are many millions muslim fundamentalists who wish us ill and they all believe in paradise and virgins. Nevertheless very few act.
Would you mind if I say those who just sympathise with terrostist or help them (with money, etc.) are prevented by fear from acting violently. I think you would not mind if I use the term "fear" or "cowards" describing US-hatine muslim fundamentalists.

Would a sentence "The terrosists are less cowardly then their supporters" offend your feelings?

Regardless their academic merit, "bravery" or better yet "fearlessness" are quite good for practical purposes.
When setting an ambush at an afghan mountain trail against an approaching caravan of four dosen mujaheddin the captan probably though like this:

"Two mashineguns in that ravine would have been enough to pin down that bunch if they were germans or americans and keep them in place for mortar fire, but since those mujaheddin are much more fearless, they will charge - so five machineguns are needed to cut them down before they close to grenade range".

What did TT mean by his bravery remark? If he ment that we should beware of those terrorists, I agree with him. I doubt he ment that we should admire them.

easymo: The comparison with the robbers is not appropriate.
There is a difference about the bank robbers and other violent criminals in America compared to the real evil terrorists. Most of them are on a stupid side and they fail to assess risks correctly or exercise the proper foresight. Their "work" is dangerous but they engage in it not because they lack fear but because they fail to correctly estimate the odds - just like americans who play lottery.
Whatever else the terroststs were, they were not stupid and they correctly estimated the odds of their death as 100%.

miko

Dowding · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2002, 10:40:21 AM »

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Can't quote the exact verse but it's somewhere near the jihad. That funny thing about physical extermination of all infidels (that is people with different beliefs, regardless of them being combatants or civilians). Is that clear enough?

The rules on warfare as set out in the Koran forbid the killing of non-combatants, the destruction of livestock or agriculture etc.

Here's some quotes for you:

God to Mohammed:
You are neither hard-hearted nor of fierce character, nor one who shouts in the markets. You do not return evil for evil, but excuse and forgive. - Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 362

The first successor to Mohammed set down these rules:
"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic
services; leave them alone"

From The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar):

Do not desire an encounter with the enemy; but when you encounter them, be firm. - Muslim Book 019, Number 4313

...a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah forbade the killing of women and children. - Muslim Book 019, Number 4320

You're confusing a particular interpretation to be a sacrament.

Jihad itself is a very subjective thing. Non-militants/fanatics view it as an inner struggle against vice/temptation/sin, not battle or as has been seen recently, murder in the name of religion.