AI Ack Needs to be Fixed!!!!!

[Blue Mako]

Yes yet another complaint about the AI ack...

I was hit yesterday by the AI ack while doing slightly over 400mph IAS at just over 7000ft above a sea level base, while maneuvering.  (I knew I would be in the upper edge of the acks envelope so I was doing S turns)  One ping and my wing comes off so I bail.

Now this takes the cake:  I pulled the ripcord about 1000ft off the ground, only about 1000yds from the base, but the ack did not hit me.  All of the guns on the field were firing at my nice slow moving, non-maneuvering chute and I didn't get hit at all.  I landed and began walking towards the base, all the time getting shot at by all the guns on the field and still no hits.  It took a zeke on a strafing run to kill me even though all the guns on the field were firing at me!!!!

So, a maneuvering target, doing 400mph, 7000ft away, is easier to hit than a non-maneuvering chute that is 1000ft (and less) away?????

This is BROKEN!  Please fix it guys.  I'm going to post this in the bugs forum as well ecause it definitely isn't a feature.

[ergRTC]

here here.

What I love is when you pass over a base doing 500 mph in a 190, escaping an enme fighter, then the ai takes off your wing, and some yutz on the ground taking off in his la7 gets a prox kill for it.


ick.

[CavemanJ]

Give it up Blue

I harped on the acks being busted ALONG time ago and eventually gave up.  They aren't going to be fixed, so it's futile to even complain about it.

Only time I go near an active ack envelope these days is to pop a 262 or 234.

[Alpo]

You are so right.

I was a lead jabo fighter on a coordinated base strike a few weeks back.  In on the VH with 2k of bombs... drop... ack takes off wing.  I manage to get a little bit of distance before I bail.  As I float to the ground, ack is spraying all around.  I land softly on a hill side and about half of the base ack continues to pepper the area around me while I report enemy strength, plane types, altitude.  I had to laugh as I never was killed.  

However I still think I should have registered at LEAST an assist on that poor Me262 sucker who tried to take off as I vectored the late arriving vulchers to him

[Midnight]

When I get home, I will post a film I made the other night.

The film starts with me in a P-51D mustang over a freshly captured field. There are several enemy GVs on the field and the AA starts firing at them.

I circle a couple times and the GVs aren't getting killed. I see many rounds hitting the ground near them, but the stupid AI AA can't kill them.

Looking for a free kill, I try to put a few rounds into a FLAK, figuring he would be dead soon enough.

I was thinking, "there are at least 4 guns within 400 yards of him and he is just sitting there.  I'll ping him, the AA will kill him, and I'll get the kill "

Anyway, I get insta-killed by the FLAK, so I decide to grab a field gun and kill the bastards. In my haste, I don't realize I am now at the wrong field and waste a few seconds looking around for GVs that aren't there.

When I realize my mistake, I ".ef" and then go to the correct field. I get in a field gun and the same GVs are still right where they were before. I see that the AA still can't hit them, so I line up and start firing.

Finally, after about 2 more minutes, and 4 assists, all the GVs are dead.

So, HOW AND WHY, for once a straight answer, can the AI AA kill a fast moving fighter at 300+ at ranges over 2000 yards, but can't kill a STATIONARY!! GV right in front of it at less than 400 yards?

The AI AA is not realistic when it acts this way. Please consider doing something to improve it.

[CavemanJ]

the old "turbo laser" (pre dispertion which porked the ack) were much better.  Least then ya knew ya had a chance.

[Blue Mako]

Punt!

Ack still needs to be fixed...

[Wotan]

man whether the ack is screwed up or not is one thing

but if you enter the ack envelope over 300 you will die. If you do then dont beetch about it.

I dont know if this is a gameplay feature but it helps gameplay.

Anyone could dive in and out of ack at 400 vulchin folks. Entering the ack now forces you slow and gives the base defenders a chance to get ya.


I can deack a large field alone in a zeke. If I follow the  "rules". Ack has been this way for a long time. Its better to adjust your way then to kept calling for it to change. Ack hasn't changed even with 1 thread a week calling for it too.

[eskimo2]

About 50% of the time that I try to solo de-ack a base I get 4 or 5 before dying.  About 25% of the time I can de-ack the whole thing.  Many others do as well and even much better.  The ground to air capabilities probably shoudn't change because of this.  Ground to ground can be strange though.

eskimo

[Blue Mako]

Guys, let me get this straight:  You think that one plane should be able to attack a fully operational field at slow speed and not only survive but be able to strip all of it's defences?

I'm sorry but that strikes me as something very buggy.  IRL planes only attacked airfields at high speed and were lucky to survive more than 1 pass.  What we need is ack that you can avoid by flying faster and maneuvering, not by flying lower and slower, that is just too gamy IMO.

I don't know what the best solution is but I know that the current model leaves something to be desired.

I would suggest removing the dispersion in the ack model we have at present and just put in simple prediction code.  Have the ack fire at the position you will be at but with a lag built in, say 1 second for slow targets (cause the gunners can follow you easier) and 2 or 3 seconds for high speed targets.  That way, if you fly in a straight line you get nailed, attack a base at low speed you get nailed, high speed jinking pass you might survive...

[Wotan]

this is a game not rl.............

all I am saying is you enter into something knowing the "rules" then get yourself worked up over the results.

IMHO the way it is now its good fer gameplay...the key word is game...........

You have to go in slo risking being shot down easier by the defenders or go in at hi speed and risk dieing by ack.

Thats how it is......... thats how its been.......... thats how it most likely will stay.

I sure dont see it as a problem..............

[Bullethead]

Blue Mako said:

I would suggest removing the dispersion in the ack model we have at present and just put in simple prediction code.  Have the ack fire at the position you will be at but with a lag built in, say 1 second for slow targets (cause the gunners can follow you easier) and 2 or 3 seconds for high speed targets

Just based on what I see, it appears we already have something like this in place and, if so, it would be the reason the acks can hit high, fast planes but not low, slow ones.

My theory:  I figure originally the acks computed lead based on some conventional formula but, for some reason (lag?) this resulted in too many misses.  Because whatever caused the misses wasn't amenable to exact conversion to a formula, HTC just added a constant fudge factor to the results of the original formula.  This resulted in hits on targets within some range of alt, speed, and maneuvering.  However, these constant factors would ensure misses outside that range because they don't change with the situation.  Just like a bomb-aiming mark on a custom gunsight--it only works at the right combination of dive angle, speed, and release alt.

If this theory is correct, there's not much that can be done.  Without a fudge factor, there are no hits at all.  With fudge factors, you can only hit some planes but are guaranteed to miss all others.  You can change the fudge factor and hit other planes, but then you just miss a different group.  So no matter what happens, there will always be a hole in the ack coverage that planes can operate safely in, and it will only be a matter of time before enterprising players find and exploit it.

But anyway, this is what it looks like is happening.  The same acks that constantly miss low, slow, or stopped targets by a wide margin seem to have no problem with higher, speedier targets.  So it really seems like the ack formulae are "tuned" for targets of a set type.

[Tumor]

Your all whiners.  Where is the evidence.  I want to see numbers!  Break out some facts people.  Your all liars!  

(Just thought I'd beat a certain sumbody to it lol)

....Oh, yes..the ack is retarded as is. (no facts, no numbers, just experience.

[MANDOBLE]

At least you can see the ack tracers and try to evade, but what about hvy ack? This is like a lotery, u spend 15 mins flying and, bad luck, somewhere nearby is a CV and now you are burning and going down ...

When you aproach an enemy field and get into ack range you are well aware of the danger and you are risking your plane on purpose, with the hvy ack things are very different.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
At least you can see the ack tracers and try to evade, but what about hvy ack? This is like a lotery, u spend 15 mins flying and, bad luck, somewhere nearby is a CV and now you are burning and going down ...
 

This really does seem odd to me.  I've only been killed by heavy ack once in as long as I can remember.  AND, it took a very long time of flying around in it for that to happen (P-51).  I have heard plenty of others say this though, I gotta wonder if there's some way lag figures in (mine should be very low on cable).