Author Topic: P-51B why no body like it? (Read 948 times)

Blue Mako · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2002, 12:09:04 AM »

The B is a nice plane but the D delivers better bang for your buck. Basically the differences in performance are so small that any advantages the B has are outweighed by 33% less firepower and much lower visibility than the D. If I want kills I take the D, the B is pretty much just for scenarios for me...

Wilbus · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2002, 12:33:55 AM »

UBER PLANE!!!

Well, almost anyway, great plane, enough arement, lots of ammo and fast with a terrific turn rate.

Angus · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2002, 07:59:12 AM »

Been flying the P51B in the CT.
To my surprize, I was able to out-turn both the 109G2 and G6 in it. Had heard that the Mustang could absolutely not do that.
Wondr if that is still possible with the P51D:confused:

Ripsnort · « **Reply #18 on:** February 14, 2002, 08:06:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Been flying the P51B in the CT.
To my surprize, I was able to out-turn both the 109G2 and G6 in it. Had heard that the Mustang could absolutely not do that.
Wondr if that is still possible with the P51D:confused:

With combat flaps, the P51 could outturn these heavier 109's. Especially if they had gun pods on.

Widewing · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2002, 08:35:17 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by DaLadyzMon
Actually, that is an excellent point, I think the AH modeling accounts for that. (Not on the N1k of course, which has killed me with 4 pings from 1.2k, but that's my whine for the week). I like the way the B model performs above 30k though. Decent speed and still has a great roll. What you would be doing at 30+ k in a plane though... I don't know, no one ever goes that high! In real life a lot of the air battles were fought at high altitudes. In AH though, we get into the Counterstrike-esque mode of playing and go for the first nme con we see, altitude or not!

I'll occasionally fly to 30k+ hunting Buffs and Lancs deep inside enemy territory. Up there, you are generally immune from harassment. A few weeks ago, I was returning from just such a sortie when I encountered two La-7s at 27k. What these knuckleheads were doing up there is anyone's guess. Anyway, I was hauling along at about 410 mph in a Mustang, so I executed a chandelle, and raced in from their high 6. I killed one when he tried to go vertical, the second turned too hard and spun. I saw no advantage in chasing him deep over Bish country, so I just headed home. These guys should have known that the La-7 is pig up that high, and has no business tangling with high altitude fighters in their rarified environment. Live and learn, I suppose.

My next experiment is to try Buff hunting using a P-47D-30 armed with HVAR rockets. I want to see if they are effective at killing them outside of gun range. I'll post the results on this board.

My regards,

Widewing

mrsid2 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 14, 2002, 12:25:51 PM »

I tried that widewing, but the rockets droped so much that I just could't get enough lead to accurately hit the lancaster. By the time I was aligned to launch the rockets, he pinged my wing off.

Rockets require a 6 approach and that's just not an option with aces high buff modeling.

funkedup · « **Reply #21 on:** February 14, 2002, 03:43:19 PM »

It does have wimpy guns. They are pretty easy to hit with but if the bandit is maneuvering you usually need more than one pass. If you fly against cannon armed planes (like in Big Week) you quickly discover that this means you have to use different tactics than the enemy. The enemy can rip you apart with one snapshot and will gamble to get that shot. You can not usually kill with a snap shot so you can't gamble like that.

You have to plan on two or three passes to knock down the enemy. However you have a good chance of causing engine damage with a good snapshot. So you end up getting a lot of assists and "mission kills" where you force the enemy to glide home but don't get a kill award. If you had cannons like the enemy, they would have been floating down in little tiny pieces. For scenarios, mission kills are fine, but it's not a great plane to rack up individual scores.

Widewing · « **Reply #22 on:** February 14, 2002, 04:14:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by mrsid2
I tried that widewing, but the rockets droped so much that I just could't get enough lead to accurately hit the lancaster. By the time I was aligned to launch the rockets, he pinged my wing off.

Rockets require a 6 approach and that's just not an option with aces high buff modeling.

I was afraid that this might be the case. However, since I prefer to attack Buffs in the vertical plane, perhaps I can figure out what lead I'll need to get a hit. Nonetheless, I expect that it will be an exercise in futility......

My regards,

Widewing

Tac · « **Reply #23 on:** February 14, 2002, 05:10:42 PM »

Widewing, this works for me in P-38 (though it still doesnt work most of the time

)

Set salvo to 10, delay to .2 (.20). Put your plane directly in front of the buff's nose and with either 5k alt adv or disadv.

When buff is d3.0, split-s or climb, TRIM the plane so the vector is steady and fire the rockets 2 buff lengths in front of its path.

The delay in the fire of the rockets will give you a better margin at having 1 of them hit.

Another trick is to power dive on the buff from high 12 oc and fire the rockets at the buffs nose when below d1.0 while corckscrewing in the direction of the buff's path. That gives you a nice wide pattern of rockets flying in the buff's path.. more chances to hit.

Problem is the compression hehe. Wish them dive flaps worked *G*

Viper17 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2002, 08:34:28 PM »

I think it teaches patchents. and teaches to concerve amo. not to blow through it like its nothing. Thea is the Mustang B way:cool:

Sundog · « **Reply #25 on:** February 14, 2002, 10:35:09 PM »

I have never had any problem downing any plane in AH with the P-51B. Buffs I have doned in a single pass with it. The key to attacking Buffs with the P-51B is to postion yourself approximately 5K above the bomber, get slightly ahead of it, then roll 180 and pull over and make a vertical firing pass on the buff and then zoom back up if you need to make another pass. Aim for the midwing point.

As for stability, I don't know why you would say that the P-51B was less stable then the P-51D. Based on everything I have read it was the P-51D which was less stable due to the bubble canopy creating turbulence on the vertical tail due to flow separation. That's why they added the dorsal fillet.

Tac · « **Reply #26 on:** February 14, 2002, 10:58:34 PM »

Or just shoot for the wingtips. *G*

fdiron · « **Reply #27 on:** February 14, 2002, 11:39:00 PM »

The P51D was heavier and had dorsal fins. This is why it was more stable than the P51B.

Widewing · « **Reply #28 on:** February 15, 2002, 12:33:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by fdiron
The P51D was heavier and had dorsal fins. This is why it was more stable than the P51B.

Both the P-51B/C and the P-51D demonstrated reduced directional stability over the P-51A. This is largely attributed to the larger and heavier propeller fitted with the Packard Merlin engine. However, when the fuselage was cut down for the bubble canopy installation, the problem became even more pronounced. After several hundred P-51Ds were in service, North American devised a solution in the form of the dorsal fin. This increased the side plate area to roughly the same as the P-51B. A rudder anti-balance tab was added to increase (that's right, I said increase) the rudder pedal forces at high speed. This aided as a damper to reduce the twitchiness of the aircraft in high-speed dives.

In terms of performance, The B was faster and turned marginally better as well. Those pilots who were fortunate enough to have a Malcom hood installed on their P-51B or C, were not happy to switch to the newer model, despite its better gun package.

My regards,

Widewing

Smut · « **Reply #29 on:** February 15, 2002, 05:49:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vruth
The A36 is a slow pig and doesn't have much use in the MA. [/B]

Disagree.

Below 15K the A-36 should do quite well. The A-36 also adds a pair of .50's under the nose.

The early mustang we need is the P-51 (no suffix) though...4x20mm!

-Smut