Author Topic: WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution.  (Read 1424 times)

Offline -ammo-

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WWII trivia/opinion - biggest contribution.
« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2002, 06:38:45 PM »
well who had the most impact on WW2..hmmm very good question. Many answers could be considered true.

From an airpower perspective, I would like to nominate a few people.

1. Billy Mitchell. Besides his court martial, he is best remembered for sinking the "unsinkable" German battleship Ostfriesland in 1921. This tuned in alot of support for a seperate Air Force, and a budget that included much moire money for military aviaition.

2. Colonel Giulio Douhet (Italy). Italy's strongest supporter for a strong aviation arm in Italy prior to WW2.

3. Maj Gen Hugh Trenchard (GB).  One of pre-WW2 mil aviations stroingest supporters in Great Britian.
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2002, 07:32:47 PM »
Boroda, was there any particular person for the Soviets who was the strongest advocate of close support aviation?  The use of "flying artillery" by the Soviets (as well as Luftwaffe, USAAF, USN, USMC, RAF, etc) was a really big factor.

Offline Pongo

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« Reply #32 on: February 14, 2002, 07:41:26 PM »
Churchill. Definatly.
Even if you tone down history to account for how much of it he himself wrote..
Of all the things that the allies needed to defeat the Germans in WW2 the only thing they lacked was the willingness to attempt it.
Churchill supplied that.
A long horrrible war of attrition on every front and in every mode of war. Land Sea and Air. If not for enigma and the Allied supperiority in Radar maybe the allies would have had to learn to fight better to win. But win they would have if they were willing to fight. They had on both fronts the luxury of being out fought by the Germans and still winning through straight attrition.  

Discounting the courage to stand up to his own country and dare them to fight and his actions to prepare Britain even befor he took power is hard to do.

Could someone else have invented enigma..I dont know. But no other leader could have saved Britian.

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #33 on: February 14, 2002, 10:40:28 PM »
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In fact you would be hard pressed to find another nation so inept in using the radar. They could not develop their own radar-fuse and had to use american design for anti-aircraft shells.

No, the radar proximity fuse was a British design, manufactured in the US.

Name a country that used radar as well as Britain.
Germany had radar at roughly the same time. They didn't integrate it into a network like the British did. The Chain Home and Chain Home Low networks were far ahead of their time, and proved their worth in the BoB.

Britain also developed airborne radar, for detecting enemy aircraft, surface search radar, even airborne early warning.
Britain flew the first working airborne radars in 1938, and had squadrons in service in 39. Germany flew their first airborne radar in 41.
Britain also developed the first ground mapping radar, H2S.

Quote
But they equipped their bombers with rear-facing "Monica" radar. It was guaranteed to always show the danger because british planes were sent in a stream a few miles one after another and the radar did not differentiate between enemy and friendly targets.
Hundreds of german Me-110 nightfighters (Shrage Musik variant) were equipped with radar that specifically homed on Monica emissions from 50+ miles away which allowed them to find and destroy hundreds of british bombers with impunity. No damaged planes survived to tell the tale until a german landed his fighter in England by accident.

Yes, but Britain also developed Serrate, which homed on German nightfighter radar, and Perfectos, a system which tripped German IFF.


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But they equipped their bombers with rear-facing "Monica" radar. It was guaranteed to always show the danger because british planes were sent in a stream a few miles one after another and the radar did not differentiate between enemy and friendly targets.
Hundreds of german Me-110 nightfighters (Shrage Musik variant) were equipped with radar that specifically homed on Monica emissions from 50+ miles away which allowed them to find and destroy hundreds of british bombers with impunity. No damaged planes survived to tell the tale until a german landed his fighter in England by accident.
Tac

Enigma was not a code you could "break" and then read at will.
The codes changed constantly, and each individual message had to be broken.
The capture of code books gave an insight into what settings were being used, no more. It still required a huge effort to crack individual messages.

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His offensive could've ended the desert war but for a decision Churchill made that could rival any of Hitlers, when he was ordered to send his Armoured Brigade, and 3 Infantry divisions including his best troops: the Australian and New Zealanders to Greece.

Tronsky

Britain has traditionally fought against European powers on the periphery, for example Napoleon in Egypt, then Spain, before finally engaging on the European mainland.
That was the case in WW2 as well, first in North Africa, then Italy, before finally France.
Seen in that light, drawing out the war in NA, and enabling Britain to continue fighting a small part of the German army, was a good decision. It allowed Britain to use it's traditional strength, the RN, to inderdict Geman supplies.
The North African campaign was ultimately costly to Germany. Several panzer division, a large proportion of the Italian army, a large percentage of the Luftwaffe, and the same level of supplies as a much larger army on the Eastern Front were tied down for a couple of years. Eventually Germany lost several hundred thousand troops in NA.

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2002, 10:47:24 PM »
The first mass producable radar proximity fuse (the VT fuse) was developed at Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory.  Other countries were working on them at the same time but the APL's design for the Navy was the first one to reach production and combat use in 1942.  They were quite effective, and APL designed versions that were used by UK armed forces as well.  I don't think the UK produced their own VT fuses until after WWII.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 11:02:16 PM by funkedup »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2002, 10:58:04 PM »
Proximity Fuse Development

"Although inventors had suggested almost every possible type of proximity fuze, in both prewar and war years, they failed to indicate how the formidable development and engineering difficulties could be satisfactorily overcome. Such fuzes to be useful for artillery purposes would have to be capable of withstanding the shock of acceleration when shot from a gun, in addition to undergoing a high rate of rotation in flight. Many patents on proximity devices were issued in various countries, but these also failed to indicate how the invention would be manufactured.

British scientists were working on proximity fuze devices for rockets and bombs at least as early as 1939. Captured documents indicate that German work on proximity fuze development had begun in the early 1930's, and was still in process when hostilities ended in the European Theatre.

In brief, there is nothing unique about the "idea" of a proximity fuze. The possibility that proximity fuzes of various types might be feasible has been recognized for a long time. The American achievement, accomplished by no other country, was the actual development of a proximity fuze that would function and that could be manufactured by mass-production techniques."



Let the arguments begin. ;)
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Offline funkedup

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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2002, 11:05:08 PM »
There's no arguing to be done.  The Brits went to APL for their fuse designs.  They couldn't make their own designs producable or field-usable for AA and artillery shells.  This is common knowledge.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2002, 11:10:46 PM by funkedup »

Offline Toad

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« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2002, 11:13:28 PM »
You beat me Funked. I was documenting/typing that one while you just went and posted.



;)
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Offline Jester

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« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2002, 05:58:34 AM »
U.S. President F.D.R.

His bending and twisting of US Neutrality Laws and bypassing the Congress on many items to get supplies and fighting equipment to beseiged England helped them hold on.  He did everything short of declaring outright war against the Axis before Dec. 7. No getting around it. While England may have dug in for the long fight it is VERY POSSIBLE they may have lost the Battle of Britian or at least had to accept a German dictated peace arrangement without US help.

Other than sending war and economic supplies (ON CREDIT). F.D.R rangled the following:

Tradeing 50 US Destroyers for leases on English Bases. (Both the Navy and Congress were against this).
Taking over the guarding of Greenland & Iceland and establishing the air & sea patrols in this area.
Ordering the USN to protect convoys out to the halfway mark on the route to England. (Even though we were not at war).
Declaring N & S America Offlimits to the Axis under the Monroe Doctrine.

Before Pearl Harbor the US was very Isolationist and did not believe we should get involved with a "European" war. F.D.R. pushed alot of the above on his own. The men, A/C, ships and supplies this saved Britian untold resources it could better use in defense at home.

Churchill would have to be a tie for first or a very close second. He was the driving force behind WW2 England and a symbol of their determination to fight to the end or till Victory.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2002, 06:01:33 AM by Jester »
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2002, 07:34:37 AM »
Hogg's "British and American Artillery of WW2" tells the rest of the story. The British research led to the conclusion that the idea was workable provided that the necessary components could be made (tiny valves, minute condensers and resistors, and above all a powerful but small battery which could sit in an ammunition store for years and yet develop full power a second or two after firing). In 1940 it was impossible for British industry to produce such items because of the demand for radar and radio sets, so when the Tizard Mission went to America in August 1940 to enlist scientific aid, one of the projects they took with them was the proximity fuze, "the theoretical work on which was virtually complete".
The USN was interested in the idea and took over the responsibility for development. Section "V" of the Bureau of Ordnance was in charge of the programme and they allocated it the code-letter "T", which led to it being called the VT fuze.
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2002, 07:37:50 AM »
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While England may have dug in for the long fight it is VERY POSSIBLE they may have lost the Battle of Britian or at least had to accept a German dictated peace arrangement without US help.

What US help did Britain have before. during or immediately after the BoB that was so crucial?
Lend-Lease supplies wouldn't start arriving for another year, and I hardly think the handfull of US volunteers for the RAF was crucial, do you?

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2002, 09:35:53 AM »
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Originally posted by JoeCrip
Targutt...you said the guy who invented the british radar? Well, that was Hitler. When Germany aided Spain, and showed it was very powerful, that scared the Birtish soooo much, that they invented radar.

A quick history lesson :)


Uh huh.

Actually IIRC it was Robert Watson-Watt. And the British high command originally wanted some kind of radio beam ray gun weapon. It was this request that lead him to the idea for what we call radar in 1934 or 1935.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2002, 10:33:14 AM »
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Originally posted by funkedup
Boroda, was there any particular person for the Soviets who was the strongest advocate of close support aviation?  The use of "flying artillery" by the Soviets (as well as Luftwaffe, USAAF, USN, USMC, RAF, etc) was a really big factor.


Hmmm... I never thought who made a "technical task" for TsKB-55. The only thing I can say now is that i was Stalin who insisted on mass producion of shturmoviks.

"Shurmovik" is not a nickname for IL-2, but a name for a whole class of aircraft. In modern days shurmoviks are A-10 and Su-25.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2002, 11:05:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by midnight Target


Uh huh.

Actually IIRC it was Robert Watson-Watt. And the British high command originally wanted some kind of radio beam ray gun weapon. It was this request that lead him to the idea for what we call radar in 1934 or 1935.


Why am I thinking that Marconi is in there somewhere?
sand

Offline Soulyss

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« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2002, 11:20:21 AM »
might as well chime in here, I think whoever was responsible for cracking the Japanese codes, without which victory at Midway in 1942 would probably have been impossible.
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I blame mir.