Here's the AI AA film

[Midnight]

http://www.brauncomustangs.org/ZIPs/AI-AA-GVs.zip

The film starts with me in a P-51D mustang over a freshly captured field. There are several enemy GVs on the field and the AA starts firing at them.

I circle a couple times and the GVs aren't getting killed. I see many rounds hitting the ground near them, but the stupid AI AA can't kill them.

Looking for a free kill, I try to put a few rounds into a FLAK, figuring he would be dead soon enough.

I was thinking, "there are at least 4 guns within 400 yards of him and he is just sitting there.  I'll ping him, the AA will kill him, and I'll get the kill "

Anyway, I get insta-killed by the FLAK, so I decide to grab a field gun and kill the bastards. In my haste, I don't realize I am now at the wrong field and waste a few seconds looking around for GVs that aren't there.

When I realize my mistake, I ".ef" and then go to the correct field. I get in a field gun and the same GVs are still right where they were before. I see that the AA still can't hit them, so I line up and start firing.

Finally, after about 2 more minutes, and 4 assists, all the GVs are dead.

So, HOW AND WHY, for once a straight answer, can the AI AA kill a fast moving fighter at 300+ at ranges over 2000 yards, but can't kill a STATIONARY!! GV right in front of it at less than 400 yards?

The AI AA is not realistic when it acts this way. Please consider doing something to improve it.

[Broes]

The Ack IS hitting them... it is just that a pnzr cant be hurt  (or hardly) by ack... Osti can only be hurt by the heavier ack type.

If you statement is true... drive a osti on a nme field as see how quick you die.

Broes

[Midnight]

Broes, that is exactly my point.

AI AA can't hit squawt if it the target is not moving. A target in motion is as good as dead.

Also, if you look again, you will see multiple ground strikes, I don't see the AA hitting the GVs at all.

Midnight

[Bullethead]

Midnight-

You never see pings from other people's hits, you just see the tracer and any damage caused.  So unless there's visible damage like missing parts and smoke, it's hard to tell whether or not anybody else is getting hits.

However, I do agree that acks don't seem to be able to hit stationary ground targets.  This is just from looking at the tracer and the ground strikes--they always seem off-target by 10 yards or so.  I've been killed in GVs by acks, but that was only when I was moving, like approaching an nme field.

Furthermore, I've only been killed by acks when I was driving an M3 or M8.  Never in a Pz4 or FP.  The Pz4 I can maybe see if you assume the 37mm is shooting only HE.  Maybe you'd lose a track or something but there shouldn't be armor penetration.  However, the turret of the FP isn't any thicker than a halftrack so you'd think acks could kill them fairly often, considering the turret is nearly as large as the hull.

The other day I was manning a 37mm ack at some field and spotted a stationary nme FP 1200 yards away.  I quickly found the range with single shots and then held the trigger down.  I hit him about 50 times and apparently caused no damage at all.  I only stopped shooting when he, having noticed where all my tracer was coming from, knocked me out.  He was still there when I looked from the tower after that.

It was my understanding that there is some randomizer in automatic weapons so that they don't always shoot in exactly the same spot.  Instead, the bullets scatter out a bit around the point of aim to simulate the gun vibrating and all.  At 1200 yards, therefore, I should have been hitting all over this FP, and about 1/2 of these hits should have been on the turret, due to its size compared to the hull.  So at the very least you'd think I'd have shot his gun off.  But I didn't, and I can't blame lag because this went on so long and he was still there after it all.

[Professor Fate]

Just other day I was helping cap a field, all ack was down, our goon rolls in and just as last troop goes in map room a mossi ups on the north runway.  We capture the field, ack comes back up and starts shooting in the direction of the nme mossi that is trying to take-off.  I watch in amazment as he rolls down the runway not taking a hit from any of our ack,no smoke, no parts falling off,  looking at ack it was criss-crossing in the direction of the mossi but never hitting it, I end up diving down and vulched him with my 190.

Friendly flak is accurate though! when Im ack hugging from an nme plane I always get pinged at least once from those guns.


Call me crazy but I think something is wacky here.

[BenDover]

there is in fact a bug with gvs and ack, sometimes when your in the gunner pos, the ack will hit you, but not ping you

i've found the troop lvt and flak panzer to do this

[airspro]

My 2 cents ,

Get rid of all AI ack . Let us the players man all those Ack guns . I have fun manning them now but there are not enough , only three on most fields .

Most people won't squeak as much if we had a rl person behind those guns .

[Minotaur]

Yes...   The AAA AI makes no sense to me either.

Ever bail out over an enemy field.  While in your halo, the AAA will randomly hit you.  Pop the chute and you can often float safely to the ground.  Once on the ground the AAA try as it might, for the most part misses.

And at the same time the AI will nail a 500kt AC out the sky with one direct hit.

PS: This experiment is possible because a Paratroop has a greater amount of armor than a Tank

[ZOSO]

Was in the tower of a port today just after it was captured.  A stationary ostie was on the field close to the tower being fired at by ack which was very (maybe too?) close.  Ack was clearly missing it as I could see the hits around the ostie.

[Midnight]

Oh yeah!

It just happened again last night.

Squadies and I were attacking A25 on Mindano (whatever it's called) when a P-51 starts climbing after my wingman. I dive in to attack the bandit which is about 10K (I think that field is at 4 or 5 K), putting distance to AA about 5K. I was pushing 325+ MPH diving in from 12K.

Anyhow, there was one (That's ONE, the lonely number 1) AA still up in the SW corner of the field (We were on the outside SE corner). Just as I am about to pull the trigger, SLAM!, my entire right wing is blown off.

So damn stupid it makes me sick. I am really tired of squeaking and moaning about this problem, but I only do so hoping that "the squeeky wheel gets the greese"[/i]. HTC will you please do something with the AA guns to make them work more realisticly?

[Minotaur]

I'm wondering if the field AAA 88's (flak guns) don't suffer from the same AI jinx.  Maybe this is the reason the field AAA guns can not hit a slow moving target.  

If the 88's nailed slow movers, no player would bomb a field as it would be certain suicide.   (High speed dive bombing B17's?)

I see countless bombers flying through the flak and suffer no damage.  The black popcorn balls seem to be mostly effect and envoirment.  

Only rarely am I hit by flak, but is it really cool when it does happen.  I kind of go "Heh, what was that?"

Not that I really mind the current AAA AI.  I have learned its quirks and how to attack it.  

But still.....  It just kind of irks the hell out of me.

The whole AAA AI issue seems really out of wack with what I perceive with what I percieve it to be and how the real world to is.  

Faster moving things are really more difficult to hit!

[Samm]

For some reason ack that is shooting a gv and hitting it will appear to everyone else to be hitting the ground and kicking up dust around and usually in front of the vehicle . But on the vehicle driver's end he's suffering the torture of the clangor of a slow ack death .

[AmRaaM]

Put the bottle away, hide the pot pipe, throw away the bag of paint ya been sniffin. The ack always hits and after awhile kills the armor or more accurately damages it so bad it is then abandoned by the player. I've never seen a buff fly low level without being hit unless its jinxing alot, because soon as you fly a strt path for more than 1-1.5 seconds the acks zero in on your butt whether  you're goin 5mph or 500mph,  what did you think that in ww2 they used a pebble glued to the aa barrel to aim with? they had compensating sights even in ww1.  I think the real problem with the aa is that there are not enough of them around the bases, maybe put some 88's on the hills surrounding the bases that can be manned by players for popping tanks and such. But also add a howitzer towed or mounted gun on a track for bombardment, it would make a nice addition to the current armor vehicles.

[eddiek]

Midnight, I agree the acks are way way off.  The slower you are the less likely you are to get hit.
As to the GV stuff, this is kinda unrelated, but I'll share it with ya.
Everyone talks about frontal armor on the PNZR and Ostwind being too thick for the 37mm or 40mm field guns we have.  I have seen tiny hit sprites when I was firing at them, and seen my tracers riccochet off in the air or ground.  At distances, I have seen then hit then impact the ground, which I thought was pretty neat at the time.
BUT...........the same acks that can kill your GV in 2-4 hits, take a helluva lot more when YOU are manning them, and that just plain sucks.  Since the 88mm was used as both an antiaircraft and antitank weapon, I wish we had three or four at each airbase, and one at each vehicle hangar.
Another thing I would like to see, is the flak towers like the Germans had.  Not AI capable at all, only player mannable.  Eye candy, plus, it gets you up where you can see the GV's and PT's or LVT's.  Can't count how many times I've hopped into a field gun to engage a GV near or on the field, and can't find the bastage as he doesn't always show on your FE, while you are plainly in HIS sights.

[Samm]

Notice also that AI acks can shoot through structures, but when you man them they cannot .