The F4U-1C arena

[Hristo]

Some might hate me for saying this, but:  Keep the Hog !

If it makes the Ta 152 any closer, keep it  

[Pongo]

I agree in this game nothing wrong with 6 x 50s....
The thing about the 4 X M2 load out on the F4U1C is that it combines the accuracy, range and ammo(in seconds) of the P51d with the wallop of the fully loaded (4 * 20) FW190... Which has no where near the firing time on its 20s... Gyro gunsight would just about finish the package....
It probably is unbalancing in this game..
Now how about 5 paras per drop tank...
Then with rockets we could take down the ack and tower...vulch the fighters and take the bunker....
Multi Role!

 

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Pongo

[Hristo]

Before reading, please note that my intention is not to whine.

One big issue are evasives. Usually I get pinged before I manage to make the situation neutral. Not to mention, this never works against the Hog  

Even with good evasives, every snapshot usually ends the fight.

What this plane is ruining are risky knife fights, where taking snapshot risk is a "normal" thing.

For example, I often fly using another handle, when I fly low and wait to get bounced by high enemy. Most times I die. But the greatest accomplishment is to reverse the situation on the attacker with initial advantage. I usually get pinged during such fights. In fact, the moment the opponent goes for a shot is my greatest chance to do something. he stays in turn longer, greed overcomes reason etc   However, against cannon Hog it is very hard.

Again, i am not whining, these are just facts. Leave the Hog, but bring in the anti-Hog. LW plane, if possible  

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 01-26-2000).]

[Lephturn]

Hristo... that's one of the problems.  If we keep the 1D, we need to bring in every low-production uber-plane there is.  In an open arena, it becomes an uber-arena.  I don't want that.  When we have an RPS then those sorts of planes can be factored in for limited periods of time with minimal impact.

I NEVER complained about 6x.50.  I think the 50's are modelled right in AH, and I have many many kills in AH in the F4U-1D.  I can't wait to get ahold of the P47D.  

I LOVE the Hawg.  What I don't like is the effect the introduction of the 1C has had on the arena.  I've never seen such a big effect on gameplay by a single plane being introduced.  I sincerely hope this effect fades with time, but the initial signs are not encouraging.

BTW, Animal, I'll post in the Training section the gunsite I use for the Hawg, and all planes I fly.  I use a 128x128 ring and cross somebody created.  I'll hafta get it up on a website.  In the mean time, please feel free to email me if you want it and I'll send it along.



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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[ra]

I've got to join the ranks of the F4U-1C naysayers, even though I've flown it quite a lot.  When HTC starts modelling rare birds like that just to make a few people happy, you soon have people expecting other rare birds, like say the Westland Whirlwind, then come the never-saw-combat types like the F8F.  I realize that creating the F4U-1C was probably pretty easy since it shares so much in common with the -1D, but its impact on the arena is much greater than its historical significance warrants.

--ra--

[MiG Eater]

I guess I can start off saying that there isn't too much historical realism in the single arena right now.  We have planes of all types fighting each other in combinations never seen in any combat.  We have a three sided arena that doesn't resemble too many places on earth much less ones where WW2 combat was flown.  We see planes from different periods fighting each other and that gap between periods will grow wider with the introduction of the Spit5, the -109E and the C.202.  The only semi historical recreations I've seen in ANY sim, have been the well (and some not-so-well) crafted scenerios in the brand-x sims.  

With regards to the F4U-1C:  If the US was ever faced with the bomber raids we see in the Aces High arena, they'd have been rolling off the line in greater numbers than their machine gun armed counterparts.  But US South Pac forces never had to defend against high flying tough skinned four engined bombers bristling with .50's.  The Japanese and Germans had to do this though and the results are the airplanes we see in AH: The N1K, FW-190A-8 and Gondola armed -109's.  They all have 3 or more heavy cannon to combat such large airplanes.  The defense justifies the threat.  Short of removing them altogether, if the -1C's are really that much of a problem, then they will need to be countered with a great adversary: say, the version .45 Mustang.  HTC and all of us flyers are creating AH's own history.  We won't see real historical accuracy until limited plane sets (by time period/geography) invoked or we start scenerio play on and over historical terrains.

On a lighter note, I bet we see this same thread when the P-38 comes out  <G>.  Just replace every F4U-1C reference with P-38 and voila!  Instant anti uber-plane thread!

MiG



[This message has been edited by MiG Eater (edited 01-26-2000).]

[Westy]

 Bravo MIG.

 Very well said.

   --Westy

[dolomite]

MiG-

Absolutely correct. Referring to my earlier comment, I feel that it is already subsiding. It is not much fun getting caught low in the F4U when there are Nikki's about. I saw more mustangs, 109's, Nikki's, and c205's than anything tonight.

And the sky will be blanketed by P38's when it is released. Worse, it will be seriously awful to run into one up high for anyone not in a 38. Finally, the high B17's may have something to worry about...    

[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 01-26-2000).]

[dolomite]

blech, double-post.

These new buttons...



[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 01-26-2000).]

[Hristo]

Now when I think of it, it is just a matter of discilpline.

When I am in 109 and high Spit bounces me, I do my best to outrun it, or cross paths and run away. Any turning/spiraling is certain death.

Seems that the same approach has to be taken against Hog. Never allow it to get a shot. While it was fun to scissor P 51 or .50 cal Hog, now it is not advisable - every Hog has cannons. Any type of scissors is very dangerous against it, for it can kill in a snapshot, especially such fragile plane as 109 is.

[minus]

yes,Pongo typhon has 4 cannons and 800 shel to give a enemy jsut it i hope stil medium alt fighter and not 20 25 K   balon :-)

[Gadfly]

you guys are forgetting the most important thing, the question that rules the AH planeset:


Is it done in WB?

That is it, the primary criteria, no excuses or reasons needed.

[leonid]

Spinny, you said,

One possible result of its introduction might be to force more fights to historical altitudes, rather than at the weed-cutting level that seems to predominate.

I hate to keep singling you out, but historical altitudes in the Russian front never exceeded 16,000 feet, and were generally around 10,000 feet.  Which historical altitudes are you referring to?

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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA

[Fenris]

It used to be Gadfly (you were around then weren't you?).  Same thing happened, it became the cannon bird of choice for the masses.  Ended up getting sneered at because of it.  Public out cry was enough to have it's 20's removed and replaced with 6 50 cals.  Usual circle of want/modelling vs play balance, you know the routine.

Fen

[Animal]

This is not a dweeb plane.
If you lose your E in it, you are screwed.
Ask TT, I engaged his Niki with my hawg with E advantage, I overshot, and he easly accelerated and caught me.

In fact, last times Ive flown, I saw few hawgs around. Remember when the Niki came out? the sky was crawling with them. And people were saying it should be removed.

A decent niki pilot can eat hawgs for launch.


One thing is for certain: even if they remove the cannons and leave only the D model, I will keep flying it happily.