Pokie

[NUTTZ]

I got your email today.
Once i get home i'll be happy to send those files.

About our other map:)
I fixed everything and sent it to HTC.

The problem was with the Clutter tiles, I had the one water to land transitional clutter set to palm trees, this CANNOT work, once you crossed over one you crashed. ( no matter how high above them you were) I believe you had stated this, so i did some testing and THAT was causing the problems.

Also i moved the location of some things in perspective of where it was placed within each tile square. THIS also made a huge difference. I got this idea from where the roads and rivers once placed are off to one side of the tile and not directly centered.

I didn't know if this was done on purpose to allow for a turn or not, but i moved my stuff and the anomilies were not completely gone but very minimized.

THANX for all your help, sorry if i twisted your ear. ( which i know i didn't from the complete hours of silence over RW:))

Man, when we get working we both go into our own little worlds.

This is my first undertaking of using the object editor and strat system. I hope all goes well.

Once again THANX for all your help, we'll be talking up a storm for future projects.

I have to get my DSL router set up, so you can use this server i'm putting together.

NUTTZ

[pokie]

That's great news Nuttz!

You've done an excellent job on this terrain and I'm glad I was able to help in any way, at least for morale support.
Always glad to talk to you.  

By the way, now that you gave birth to this little baby , what is the final name have you given it ( Tunisia? )

I usually don't pop into the Combat Theater, but I must omit , that I had to pop into it, just to check up on, if any, feed back for your terrain.

Pokie

[NUTTZ]

CC, i changed the name to Tunisia, NOT Tunsia, I did this on purpose.

Well i found out from another map , that objects have to be on level ground. Not sure if this is a MUST. I Know feilds and strats do but i didn't know Objects had to be. This may cause a problem:(

NUTTZ

[pokie]

Originally posted by NUTTZ
Well i found out from another map , that objects have to be on level ground. Not sure if this is a MUST. I Know feilds and strats do but i didn't know Objects had to be. This may cause a problem:(

NUTTZ

Hmmm, quess we'll be chatting soon.
Like to hear more about this.

I know when you destroy shapes with the "Object Type" set as:

1) Bombable (BMB) gives you the feed back "Object Destroyed"
2) Void (VOD) gives you the feed back "Structure Destroyed"
3) Runway (RWY) well I haven't had anything destroy this unless I didn't drop enough Bombs on it.
4) All other "Object Types" like Train (TRN), Vehicle Hanger (VHH)etc give back their name, like  Train Destroyed or Vehicle Hanger Destroyed

Wonder!!!   There are 2 different sets of Ground Guns in the STHqt-S that are not at ground level.  One set is 300ft high and the other set is at 148ft.  They are on the roof tops of the buildings.

P.S I forgot to say, good thinking about

Also i moved the location of some things in perspective of where it was placed within each tile square. THIS also made a huge difference. I got this idea from where the roads and rivers once placed are off to one side of the tile and not directly centered.
I didn't know if this was done on purpose to allow for a turn or not, but i moved my stuff and the anomilies were not completely gone but very minimized.

remember when we were dealing with this and I was only looking at the invisible Tiles lines that join at the center.

Also did you get my 3 emails?   two for the 13th and one for the 15th.

Pokie

[Tilt]

Originally posted by NUTTZ
The problem was with the Clutter tiles, I had the one water to land transitional clutter set to palm trees, this CANNOT work, once you crossed over one you crashed. ( no matter how high above them you were) I believe you had stated this, so i did some testing and THAT was causing the problems.

Coming into your conversation halfway through but I can concurr that clutter does effect the stability of bridges as does the postion you put them.

even passing over water clutter as a bridge merges with the ground can cause your vehicle to "fall thru"


I have done three things to over come this...

1) I use the same off set in the tile as is used by roads..(you do this too I see) but will off set to either side of centre.

2) I use water clutter for grass as well as all grass/ water transitionals. (Its wet grass  or silver sand?) (I have an approach avenue [on the adjacent tile]which I do not want a tree in the middle of)

3) Bridges are either close to air fields or are depots in their own right. This removes all clutter from the area of the bridge and eliminates clutter problems. For depot bridges I use a conventional maproom set up under the bridge and a "no tower" adjacent to it. ("No tower" is using a tilted hanger view point to allow the player to feel as if he is standing in the open when "in" the tower")


This depot bridge is now an easily capturable objective. Further roads can be spawned from either side of it.  In its basic form it has no "town" objects but if you wish to build a village around it which must be destroyed prior capture or even add a GV hanger and some AI gguns................


From my perspective making the bridge into a depot served many purposes.


Foot note

The out put from depots is ratio'd somehow to its damage. I presume this is a function of a % of town buildings destroyed. I have yet to test fully the effect of a depot having no town objects.

Worst case is that I have to add a few to each depot bridge.

Re objects on the ground.......

None of my bridges are on the ground and I have noted the following.........They cannot be bombed but they can be destroyed by tank artillery. Changing them from runway to bombable to void makes no discernable difference (except as a runway vehicles can "land successfully") I initially raised them all by 6 inches to ensure I was free of any object/ground interface problems. I may drop them again since making them depots to test if that problem has "gone away".

I note that Guns ontop of the HQ buildings can be killed by artillery and bombs however the Ggun object comes complete with a small ground graphic, also objects defined as gguns become endowed with all sorts of strange powers





Tilt

[NUTTZ]

Tilt, Post a screen shot, A picture is worth a thousand words:)

NUTTZ

[Tilt]

Originally posted by NUTTZ
Tilt, Post a screen shot, A picture is worth a thousand words:)

NUTTZ

Ok the 1st one is my M3 sitting on Tilsit bridge.

You will note that there is a map room under the bridge there is also an invisble tower on the other side. You should also note that there is no clutter under the bridge and since HT modified the "hard" clutter to be no closer  than a tile to a field tile then there is no clutter under the bridge at all



The 2nd one is a view of the map editor. I have high lighted the map room objects the "no tower" and a 20mm ggun.

You will note the adjacent roads which I can confirm all work in animation. I could have postioned the bridge to the left of the tile and made the roads line up better. Frankly I am awaiting the new object editor to tidy up this sort of thing with nicer bridges and floor graphics at each end. (No I dont know any thing about it)



And finally the whole map in its pre clip board form. Everywhere a red line (road) crosses a river there is a capturable truck spawning bridge which thinks its a depot. Any whwere you see a name there is a field of some size or another or a VF or a  depot plus some other goodies.

Black lines are Railways.



Tilt

[pokie]

Interesting info Tilt, looking good!

Originally posted by Tilt
Re objects on the ground.......
None of my bridges are on the ground and I have noted the following.........They cannot be bombed but they can be destroyed by tank artillery. Changing them from runway to bombable to void makes no discernable difference (except as a runway vehicles can "land successfully") Tilt

If you set the items as Runways you can bomb them, but they won't be destroyed.   If they are set as Void or Bombable they can be destroyed by a bomb.

Example:  Place a Runway shape at an altitude of 100ft, and set it as Bombable.  Now drop a ( at least 300lbs worth ) bomb load on it.  The bomb doesn't actually hit the runway and exploded, but passes through it to the ground underneath it.  The runway will be destroyed due to proximity I guess.

300 lbs is enought for items from 0 to at least 1000ft altitude.

Notes:  

1) If a runway is placed any higher than 194ft, planes won't land on it.
2) If a runway is place on a water tile ground vehicles can cross over on it and Pt Boat can pass through it.
3) Just a reminder, that all items for the same field or country that are set the same and have the same group Id will all be destroyed at the same time.
4) information from Note #3 will help you in destroying items that have the "Can Collide" box unchecked.

Pokie

[NUTTZ]

Nice Pics Tilt,

I never knew the "hard clutter" rule. Thanx for the idea:) I still have a problem with the water clutter showing threw.

If you fly a plane under the bridge and you look up what do you see?

If you fly straight (same alt as Bridge) what do you see?

If you fire at the bridge from on the bridge where do the hit sprites show?

You get any "bumping" while riding across it in a GV?

I like the ramps, do the Gv's spawn on them? I know there is a problem with gv's climbing steep hills and ramps. One reason why i decided to make my bridge straight level end to end and raise the Tiles on each side (which added problems). And then there is the frame rates issue.

Your map looks like it's coming along really well, I hope to fly in it someday.

I don't understand this part..."capturable truck spawning bridge which thinks its a depot."

I've set my bridge and started a road to look like it was part of it, and could assign it to a close depot ( or add one ) but the convoys would just start there and go away. what i was looking to do was see if I could get trains and convoys to cross the bridge, but this is impossible ( with this version of the TE) because roads ,rivers,and tracks assume the alt of the tiles it overlays.


I'll post a screen shot of my bridge tonight. If you need some group objects i made that you can use just ask i'll email them to you. You'll get a better idea once you see the screen shot. I've also split my bridge into 2 halves, so one side can own and capture one side, while the other can own the other half. BTW, i put mannable guns on my bridges, so you'll need to own both halves to cross it:). I Built this with the CT in mind so I made alot of the bridge parts the 3rd country, so it can be destroyed by either side, while owning either side ( so watch them stray bullets:))

Top veiw:


From underneath:


NUTTZ

[Tilt]

"If you fly a plane under the bridge and you look up what do you see?"


I see an inverted runway...... however the runway objects are translucent so I also see any vehicle which is above me.

"If you fly straight (same alt as Bridge) what do you see?"

It is possible to take an approach where the bridge becomes a thin line. as none of the bridge is horizontal then there is always a part of it visible.

"If you fire at the bridge from on the bridge where do the hit sprites show?"

Sprites appear to hit the water bullets pass thru the bridge.

"You get any "bumping" while riding across it in a GV?"

None at all... but the ride on suface is only two objects (one up runway, one down runway). GV's will"bumb" as they mount the 6 inch curb to get on the bridge and if you drive a GV very very slowly it is possible to "fall thru" the apex

"I like the ramps, do the Gv's spawn on them? I know there is a problem with gv's climbing steep hills and ramps. One reason why i decided to make my bridge straight level end to end and raise the Tiles on each side (which added problems). And then there is the frame rates issue."

The hanger nets are just to force the proper approach..... I do not put spawn points there but  of course spawn points can be put any where.

The ramp angle is very gentle....  100:2460.  I also initially preferred flat bridges... and if they were more trouble free would still prefer them. (bridges are normally buit flatish between two promentaries) Flat bridges always cross at least two tile boundaries. I think (but am not sure) that they should take up a full three tiles.  

It should simplify the ground code if the ground rose a constant angle across the full tile width and length. (eg for a three tile bridge the centre tile would be at 0 the end tiles would be at 0 > 50 > 100 across each of their intercies with no diagonal changes in elevation.

The bridge in the picture uses 10 objects with a further 3 objects to make it into a depot.

"I don't understand this part..."capturable truck spawning bridge which thinks its a depot." "

By adding a map room and a tower and giving the tower a depot property I asign roads that spawn from the bridge the property of the bridge. The bridge can now be captured and so convoys will only spawn from the bridge toward freindly fields. The bridge is in AH terms....... a depot.

"I've set my bridge and started a road to look like it was part of it, and could assign it to a close depot ( or add one ) but the convoys would just start there and go away. what i was looking to do was see if I could get trains and convoys to cross the bridge, but this is impossible ( with this version of the TE) because roads ,rivers,and tracks assume the alt of the tiles it overlays."

Yes its a pity we cannot get roads to cross bridges but roads are not objects......... they are "something else"...........

I wanted the bridge to have a strategic value so making it act like a depot means that folk can capture it and it then it starts to spawn stuff to their advantage. I do have a few bridges on the terrain which are the property of very adjacent fields (so adjacent that I have had to delete some spawn points so folk dont hit it on take off!)


Your bridge is very impressive...... I particularly like the structural pillars (are they taxi start points?) and getting those taxi start points to line up for the bridge its self has obviously involved a lot of work. This construction method is much better suited to flat bridges.

Can your bridge be bombed? if so what do you think has enabled this?

Frankly I am awaiting the future object editor so I can attempt a single tile bridge in 1 object. The centre span need be no higher than 50 feet (few bridges are higher) just high enough for a PT boat to go under. It would be diagonnally placed across the tile with an up ramp and a down ramp and a centre horizontal no more than 200 ft long under which would be the only place that stuff could sail/fly under it. The south side (or west side if turned) would line up with the road vertices.

This bridge could then be plonked down anywhere in a tile without so much of the faffing over the exact loaction we have to do now.

Tilt

[pokie]

Originally posted by Tilt
Sprites appear to hit the water bullets pass thru the bridge.

"You get any "bumping" while riding across it in a GV?"

None at all... but the ride on suface is only two objects (one up runway, one down runway). GV's will"bumb" as they mount the 6 inch curb to get on the bridge and if you drive a GV very very slowly it is possible to "fall thru" the apex
Tilt

Solution to seal "the apex"

Try this experiment:

1) Make a Grid Box "Water" and then make the Grid Box North of it "Grass".

2) Lay a runway shape in the dead center of that "Water Grid Box" and then lay one in the dead center of the North Grass Grid Box".  You can set it as Runway, Void or Bombable.  The "Can Collide" box must be checked.
(setting snap spacing at 2640 with the snap box checked before placing shape will give you this)

3) Now place a STRTAXI shape on the shared Grid line (the Apex)for the Grid Box Water and Grid Box Grass.  I know it crosses over the Grid line.  You can set it as Runway, Void or Bombable.  The "Can Collide" box must be checked.

4) Place a Entpnt for a vehicle spawn point on either runway shape.

5) Raise all these items ( runways, strtaxi, entpnt ) 100ft high.  

Now after building the .res file go in the game and launch a ground vehicle and drive to the opposite runway.  When you get to the STRTAXI you will see it clipping ( disappear, appear etc ) thats ok.  Drive on the STRTAXI as slow as you want, you will not die.

Now if you had STRTAXIs on either side of the shared Grid line this STRTAXI that you are driving on clipping effect wouldn't be as noticeable.

Pokie

[NUTTZ]

Yes the pillars are StrTaxi, and yes it was hard to do. I just cut and paste the coordinates from one object to another right in the editor to line up an x or y axis, rinse repeat. The pillars are set to collide so even a PT boat gets killed if you run into it. My bridge is 192 feet in hight.  How I did mine was invert a runway set to 180, set a regular runway at 192, and then placed strtaxi at 190 and set to Uncollide, kinda like an Oreo cookie where the cream is Strtaxi and the waffer is runway. It really stopped the transparecy, Your hit sprites still go threw, but over all, i found it to be a good fix.  Set your objects to void and they can be bombed, or bombable.   Theres a close feild on either end, i assigned the guns to those feilds.  So if you capture the feild you get the bridges shore batts and guns ( on that side, as well as the runway on each side is feild owned ). There for like i said one country can own one half  as the other owns the other side. The center i set to country 3 ( odd man out) I designed this with the CT in mind ( axis vs allied)

Great sharing ideas with you, It only improves the game. I like how you also think outside the box ( as well as many other mapmakers do)

NUTTZ

[hitech]

Nuttz: If your planning on using the bridge for the CT terrains, I would strongly recomend you don't.

HiTech

[weazel]

Originally posted by hitech
Nuttz: If your planning on using the bridge for the CT terrains, I would strongly recomend you don't.

HiTech

HiTech, you have mail on a different editor subject.

[pokie]

Originally posted by hitech
Nuttz: If your planning on using the bridge for the CT terrains, I would strongly recomend you don't.

HiTech

Don't take this the wrong way HiTech, we are always glad when you answer or give input to our post, but you just can't ( well actually you can ) give that kind of reply!!!

Dad: " Well Nuttz,  If you are going to stick your finger in that light socket, I would strongly recommend you don't "

Nuttz: "Ahhhhhhhhhhh"

Dad: "Hello 911, I need help, my son just got electrocuted and hes not breathing"

Couple days later at his sons funeral.

Dad: "If only I said,  Well Nuttz,  If you are going to stick your finger in that light socket, I would strongly recommend you don't, because if you do you will get a very bad shock and could even get electrocuted and die".


Nuttz has done alot of hard work on his terrains and I've had the privilege to link up with him a couple of time to see him at work on his latest project with his bridge.

What an imagination, and you don't get to many like that.  First couple of minutes ( I think it was seconds ) working with him I said to myself, I like this guy.

I would think he deserves some kind of explanation, plus it will enlighten us too since we all check these post.

Pokie