Author Topic: Fw190 stuff:  (Read 1042 times)

Offline illo

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 374
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2002, 08:49:38 AM »
stop it! you make me feel guilty! :)

Offline Naudet

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2002, 09:04:03 AM »
As you might remember, i was the one that brought those charts to AH, just before it was modeled back in april 2001 (hope thats right).

And i spent hours and hours last year to compare AH D9 performance with the one on the charts. I had plenty of help with that from HoHun (Henning).
Also i got a hard copy of the original FW speed chart, together with additional papers. The quality is much better than the scan.

And to get the AH D9 speed, i counted single pixels of the AH D9 speed chart.

I will summarize the results.
AH D9 matches nearly exactly the speed of a real D9 using a JUMO213A, on B4 (87 Octane) fuel and MW50 for special Emergency (curve 4 on the chart).

I think the AH D9 top speed is 430mph max, and 377 mph SL (100%fuel).
The one for the real D9 (curve 4) is 432mph max, and 379 SL.

The 2mph difference, comes from a fact, that i couldnt clear yet.
The FW speed chart is for a weight of 4250kg.
But fully loaded weight for D9 is always listed as 4270 kg, this also appears in this way for the original FW climbchart.
So the 20kg more weight of the AH d9 compared to the one from the chart, will explain the minimal speed difference.

I also want to make a full performance picture of the D9, containing speed, climb and turn and compare this to the AH D9.
But this would need time (especially testing AH D9 performance) that i cant afford yet.

Cause it is bad to trust the gauges and charts from AH, i would like to use data, that was gained by testing the AH D9, so we have the exact informations we need.

But what i can surely say, is that the speed of the AH D9 is not wrong. It matches the speed of the (as far as i know) most comom variant of the D9 in 1945.

A little paradox, but intersting, is the fact that the fastest D9s were the early ones, that used C3 fuel. Those would have the speeds of curve 1) in the chart.
So a D9 of September 44 would have performance equal to curve 1)
and one from January 1945 would have that of curve 4) or that what we have in AH at the moment.

Offline Sachs

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 570
      • http://where?
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2002, 10:10:12 AM »
According to Galland the first units that got the D-9's top speed was around 370!!!!  They had no boost and were subpar at best.  Well that is what he wrote in one of those damned books I have stored right now.  JG26 something something.  SOmeone else will go look it up for me I am sure.  But before boost was added they really were pigs.

Offline Naudet

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2002, 01:51:27 PM »
There's a difference, between the units getting only the D9 with JUMO213 using B4 fuel and without boosting and the onve getting D9 using C3 fuel.

The C3 fuel birds were really fast and powerful. And the squads histories (JG54 and JG26) i found mainly statements regarding to C3 fuel than to B4 fuel. It seems there were couple of problems, with D9 sitting on ME109er fields that only stored B4 fuel. The D9 pilot had to wait till C3 fuel was delivered before he could take off.

Offline illo

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 374
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2002, 08:28:54 AM »
Quote
A little paradox, but intersting, is the fact that the fastest D9s were the early ones, that used C3 fuel. Those would have the speeds of curve 1) in the chart. So a D9 of September 44 would have performance equal to curve 1)
and one from January 1945 would have that of curve 4) or that what we have in AH at the moment.

Thanks Naudet. Ho-Hun told me about that 87 octane just recently...funny.

Btw. What curve 3 stands for? That low alt performance is awesome.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2002, 08:32:32 AM by illo »

Offline Naudet

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2002, 12:19:43 PM »
Curve 3) is for an engine that uses a special A-Lader (A-Charger).

The estiminated low alttitude power is somewhere between 2200-2300PS. How exactly it worked, i could not find out yet.

Yes, HoHun knows as much (in some parts more) than me about D9, together we searched for as much D9 data as we could find.

Offline Glasses

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1811
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2002, 02:16:35 AM »
OK Coming back to the D9 compression and the Ta152 being too slow(and stalling like a mother) any one has any clues?

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2002, 04:19:48 AM »
Glasses, if you have some time, we may do some diving tests in DA from A1 (> 10k dive to the sea) with different 190s and some other planes. You will be very surprised, specially with the Typhoon. Any clue? not at all, but the fact is that D9 control at hi speed is poor even comparing it to the A series.

Offline Wilbus

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4472
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2002, 04:37:35 AM »
TA152 not very good at high speeds either, not the same wing as Aseries though so might be that.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2002, 04:57:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Yeah I converted wrong, it should be 380 mph and 436 mph.  So it's a whopping 3 to 5 mph difference from those Fw charts.  Of course it can't be possible that HTC have a better or more detailed source than those?


Fek ... my new ride is porked ...

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2002, 06:13:39 AM »
Naudet, do you have drag coeficients for D9 and A8?

Offline Naudet

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 729
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2002, 06:39:42 AM »
A comparison of drag coefficients u can find here
Drag Coefficients


But i will include them here:

D9 has a CD "Coefficient of Drag"  of 0.0062
the A8 one of 0.0071

So the D9 should dive faster and keep Energy better, cause the drag coefficient is lower.
I yet did not do any test on diving and zooming, but i always got the feel the D9 losses to much E in the vertikal.

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2002, 06:55:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Naudet
I yet did not do any test on diving and zooming, but i always got the feel the D9 losses to much E in the vertikal.


Me too, but I'm a luftwhinner, so I dont count. Time to grab some Hp/Weight ratios now ...

Thanks Naudet.

(straffo, be aware, even uglier maths otw)

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2002, 07:23:06 AM »
Hey !!!!

Now I'm a luftwhinner too :)

the proof :


Quote
Fek ... my new ride is porked ...


And I'm just warming-up !
Make no mistake I will be the worst of all luftwhinner ...
I just stated my luftwhinner boot camp :D

I can say :

ein tzwei ...whinne
ein tzwei ...whinne  ...

ten time without breathing now ;)

Offline Glasses

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1811
Fw190 stuff:
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2002, 06:18:20 PM »
Estamos mandobelito vamos me avisas cuando para hacerlo