Author Topic: The Great Insulter Goofs. (Read 1977 times)

Apache · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2002, 08:41:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eskimo2
LOL,
I see Apache,
So 2% of the possible fighter combinations of the MA is limited, but 3% is not?
ROTFLMAO,
You guys are so funny!
LOL

eskimo

Swooosh! Right over his head, lol.

lazs2 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:25:38 AM »

like I said... it scares the crap outta me if this guy was really a teacher..

"Like I said... you can't find me contradicting myself ...

And,

vortex... i believe you have pegged the problem with "historical" arenas where people become easily familiar with the few FM's and even less combinmations. Every fight becomes the same old "moves" with the newer guys simply dying due to lack of experiance. short icons being more realistic as far as "real" SA is concerned is debatable but certainly we can see much better in real life than on a monitor. ...

And,

nuttz.. I agree. with the MA so full you should have(some) numbers. With all the new guys, an arena like the CT with it's simplified SA and easily learned planeset should be a good place for the new guys to break in for the more challenging MA. With the small numbers and infrequent engage3ments and slower pace of the CT, the newbie will be able to ask questions and get help easier. Smaller crowds are more polite crowds as a rule., "

All these things are still true... nothing has changed. In your zeal to find me "contradicting myself" you have made a fool of yurself.... again..

Besides what apache said, which I thought even you could understand... In an area arena you could simply click on another field and have even more choice while maintaining parity. I have explained all this many times and some of it is obvious even the first time. Ya know... with your ability to comprehend and retain information.... perhaps the CT is the place for you... it will be new and exciting every day for you.. no matter how many times you watch a fish flop 190 or see the "hartnman stomp 109"..

and lowe... I would be worried if my little blubber eating buddie knew how to load a gun.
lazs

eskimo2 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:44:29 AM »

LOL,
36 fighters available in the main = 1260 possible fighter combinations.
6 fighters available in the main "area arena"= 36 possible fighter combinations.
5 fighters per side in the CT = 25 possible fighter combinations.

36 out of 1260 = 3%
The area arena would have 3% of the possible fighter combinations of the main.
25 out of 1260 = 2%
The CT in the example would have 2% of the possible fighter combinations of the main.

ROTFLMAO!
Either way, both have extremely limited possible fighter combinations compared to the main.

Could you dig this any deeper?
LOL

eskimo

Nifty · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:45:08 AM »

Apache, you need to state that your math applies ONLY if you stick with Bishops, Rooks or Knights the entire time.

In your Area Arena setup, you're counting a Spit V vs 109E AND 109E vs Spit V as a possible matchup, which is possible on any side.

In your CT setup, you're counting Spit V vs 109G2, but not the 109G2 vs the Spit V, as it's not possible if you stay on the Allied side. However, all it takes is a .country X command and , you're on the Axis side, with another 25 possibilities.

A better math example would have been to use the exact same planeset in Area Arena vs. Combat Theater.

take the combinations in your Area Arena setup in a CT context. 3 planes a side gives 9 combinations per side, for a total of 18 possibilities as opposed to 36 possibilites if it's not Axis vs Allied restricted.

The Area Arena does offer parity, but inside the area, the choices are limited, just not as much as a Axis vs Allied setup using the same planes. here ya go.

X = number of Allied Y = number of Axis
CT = (X*Y)*2 = 2XY
AA = (X+Y)^2 = X^2 + 2XY + Y^2

Both are limiting vs a full planeset, but the AA is much less limiting using the same number of planes, and therefore can provide better parity with the same number of possible matchups as a CT setup that has more planes.

Having said all of that, I prefer Axis vs Allied. I'm a roleplayer at heart. I don't care if it's more limiting, I enjoy it more. Thankfully, I have a choice.

Apache · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2002, 09:53:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by eskimo2
LOL,
36 fighters available in the main = 1260 possible fighter combinations.
6 fighters available in the main "area arena"= 36 possible fighter combinations.
5 fighters per side in the CT = 25 possible fighter combinations.

36 out of 1260 = 3%
The area arena would have 3% of the possible fighter combinations of the main.
25 out of 1260 = 2%
The CT in the example would have 2% of the possible fighter combinations of the main.

ROTFLMAO!
Either way, both have extremely limited possible fighter combinations compared to the main.

Could you dig this any deeper?
LOL

eskimo

The aforementioned numbers were examples only and you took that to be all inclusive. ROFLMAO.

Are you still a teacher?

Go talk to Nifty. He got it.

lazs2 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2002, 10:30:19 AM »

its even worse than that... even using the example Apache gave.. G2 G6 or A5 A8 pretty much the same plane. you don't have to learn them as much. Spit 5 Spit 9... 51b 51D? seems there are only about three flight models and the "choice" and parity are an illusion.. Pretty much.... one side can outturn the other. Both have a couple of planes that are fast but clumsy. you have basicly 2 FM's against two FM's no real combinations other than that.

with area arena the early area would be the most "limited" but.. even it would offer far more choice than even the most contrived axis vs allied. You could go into an axis vs allied fight knowing that there would not be another plane with your FM to fight or... to have to keep track of on your side. Yu would be able to judge your situation far easier. In area... you would have so much parity that you couldn't count on any inherent advantage.. somebody(s) on the other side will have your plane plus one or two that are superior in turn or in speed/acceleration. You can't count on your plane you have to fly it. In the CT one plane is allways fastest and untouchable.. The other side can't up in one faster or the same. One plane allways turns the best... the other side has nothing to compare. One side allways has the best climbing plane... One side allways had the best guns..

with the CT you either have to have very limited planesets or.... go gimicky.... gimicky 'perk" to get variety but.... you throw out parity with such a gimick.. it's a ded end. The "choice" in the CT is to fly inferior planes against superior planes (perk) or, fly planes of parity with only one or two FM's on either side. you lose either parity or choice. I am unwilling to lose either for long.

In an area arena you have both parity and choice. And... there is nothing stopping you fom moving to another area for a whole new set of choices that will also have parity.

Anyway... regardless of what type of fight you like.... What I advocate should be obvious to anyone. Parity and Choice. I have used those buzzwords from the first.. quite a few years now. I cannot see how i am contradicting myself now or..... how any other system (including perk) would offer better parity and choice all in one. Certainly the CT is the oppossite of that.
lazs

Creamo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2002, 02:07:27 PM »

We all know how Lazshole has bashed the CT and us...

This is disturbing. If I fly the CT, will I BECOME one of the "US"?

Is there mutation, or leather involved?

You guys are weird.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2002, 05:08:12 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
its even worse than that... even using the example Apache gave.. G2 G6 or A5 A8 pretty much the same plane. you don't have to learn them as much. Spit 5 Spit 9... 51b 51D? seems there are only about three flight models and the "choice" and parity are an illusion.. Pretty much.... one side can outturn the other. Both have a couple of planes that are fast but clumsy. you have basicly 2 FM's against two FM's no real combinations other than that.

with area arena the early area would be the most "limited" but.. even it would offer far more choice than even the most contrived axis vs allied. You could go into an axis vs allied fight knowing that there would not be another plane with your FM to fight or... to have to keep track of on your side. Yu would be able to judge your situation far easier. In area... you would have so much parity that you couldn't count on any inherent advantage.. somebody(s) on the other side will have your plane plus one or two that are superior in turn or in speed/acceleration. You can't count on your plane you have to fly it. In the CT one plane is allways fastest and untouchable.. The other side can't up in one faster or the same. One plane allways turns the best... the other side has nothing to compare. One side allways has the best climbing plane... One side allways had the best guns..

with the CT you either have to have very limited planesets or.... go gimicky.... gimicky 'perk" to get variety but.... you throw out parity with such a gimick.. it's a ded end. The "choice" in the CT is to fly inferior planes against superior planes (perk) or, fly planes of parity with only one or two FM's on either side. you lose either parity or choice. I am unwilling to lose either for long.

In an area arena you have both parity and choice. And... there is nothing stopping you fom moving to another area for a whole new set of choices that will also have parity.

Anyway... regardless of what type of fight you like.... What I advocate should be obvious to anyone. Parity and Choice. I have used those buzzwords from the first.. quite a few years now. I cannot see how i am contradicting myself now or..... how any other system (including perk) would offer better parity and choice all in one. Certainly the CT is the oppossite of that.
lazs

LOL Lazshole,
You really are funny!

The "Area Arena" still only has 3% of the possible fighter combinations of the main.
You can try to change the subject, make excuses, or try to confound the situation, but it's more than obvious that you have contradicted yourself, and insulted your own idea.

It would be a good place for newbies to learn, however, with the easily learned plane-set. In fact it probably should be called the "Newbie Area".

ROTFLMAO

eskimo

buhdman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2002, 05:35:40 PM »

I think it's true: Americans have WAY too much free time on their hands!

NUTTZ · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2002, 06:33:06 PM »

GAWD, why am i replying in this thread?

Ok, I understand what Laz is stating and what eskimo is saying.

laz' POV: during the war each side tried to one up the opponends fighter, and if you MUST draw a dateline in the sand, one side will always have the Sheety end of the stick. I fully understand his parity and choice statements also.

Laz's suggestion: IF you are trying to limited the planeset to a certain Dateline give BOTH sides the same rides, this will increase the choices and parity of the fights and BOTH sides will be on equal footing while still maintaining Freedom and fun, and a historical twist.

Eskimo's POV: Limit the planeset to an dateline, with axis only having axis rides and allied with only allied rides. this will be more historically correct.

Ok, am i on target sofar?

Laz's rebuttal: the current CT will stagnate and get boring really quickly with such a limited planeset, and the "perk" system does little to help with fixing one side having the Sheety end of the stick. Also the reduced Icon's hurt the overall effect of gameplay. With 3 allied vs. 3 axis rides the "learning curve" ( strenght's vs. weakness ) of each plane will come fast and get (yawn) boring quickly, therefor reducing people in the arena.

Eskimo's rebuttal:By having allied vs axis planes this "symulates" a ww2 arena more than both sides sharing the same ride. Reduced Icons "symulate" and stimulate ACM more ( BNZ planes will have a thriving chance and get to be used as they were intended) this alternative setup will bring people INTO the CT.

Am I STILL on target?

Even if Laz is arguing about the CT, at least this shows he is interested in seeing an ALternative to the MA. Although I'm not stating who is right or wrong.

IMO, at least people are trying to make the CT work, also the planeset changes weekly so i don't think people will be bored to quickly. The main problem is the Lack of planes in HTC at the moment. (HOLD ON THERE! I am in NO WAY stating HTC is slacking, man this is a dream Symulator here for me and you all know I've been a HTC cheerleader since day one!)
But a line HAS to be drawn in the sand as far as a dateline, and a planeset, and one side WILL always have the sheety end of the stick, AND the CT team knows this and has used the 'Perk" sytem to TRY and balance this problem out.

A hearty should go out to this crew!

HTC has come a long way and have spoiled us with such an excellent 'Sym", constantly adding new planes, this will decrease the wide spand of the "one upsmanship" in the planeset area, and soon will decrease the need of the "perk" system to balance this void.
I like the CT ( althou "I" still think it needs to be refined in some areas), I listen with both ears and an open mind.

Whether you know it or not Laz and Eskimo are more alike than far apart, they BOTH are stating thier views to IMPROVE the CT, to choose one's views over another is purely your choice.

IMO, I like the allied vs. axis set-up. I know, I know, It's not the real deal, but the CT team is utilizing what they have to work with at the moment. I know this will costantly change with added planes from HTC, and perks and ENY values will also change. New maps, new strats new planes added all the time, tweek this tweek that, argue this argue that, and WHALLA! we'll have a polished CT in no time:)

NUTTZ

eskimo2 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2002, 06:55:36 PM »

NUTTZ,
I gotta give credit to Lazshole and Apache for confounding the point with trivia and changing the subject.
LOL, their only strategy.

My only point is that Lazhole bashed the CT for the limited plane set and possible fighter combinations. His "area arena" does the same thing and offers only 3% of the main arena possibilities.

He has contradicted himself and as always has changed the subject! LOL

eskimo

NUTTZ · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2002, 07:21:52 PM »

Hmm,,, maybe a plane could be enabled on one side one day and one plane on the other side the next day ( symulating Time spand of ww2),, just a thought. Of course you wouldn't want to keep logging in every other day:)

NUTTZ

lazs2 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2002, 09:55:19 AM »

and my point is that I have suggeste an area arena for a very long time now and have been against perk planes from the outset and find the CT to limiting in both planeset and "features" like icon and radar.

nuttz has followed both ends pretty well but the point eskimos was trying to make was, as he said, that I was contradicting myself. nuttz pointed out, and I'm sure everyone else can see, that the CT is more limited that even the most limited area of the "area" arena... the early war area. In an area arena you could still fly any plane you wanted with a simple click you would be "limited" only by parity and only in the "area" you chose at that moment.

It would appear that the whole point of his post was false and useless unless he just was tired of not seeing me post in the CT board. No? Perhaps he really is that stupid? Certainly that would appear to be the case but...... Perhaps, as creamo hints at, He feels that the "brotherhood of CT players" will jump on any bandwagon and offer up their support for any "anti lazshole" thread no matter how weak or poorly thought out?

What's next igloo boy? gonna call me a liar because I don't want perk planes or 262's flying against othe planes... Taking them out "limits" the planeset.

nuttz... fly where you like. I will probly fly a little (till it get's old) in the CT when the early planes or BOB (the only real parity in HA'a) comes out. Where else am I gonna fly the early rides with anything close to parity... If you make even the BOB some kinda perk nightmare tho I probly won't. I do hope you guys "succeed" enough to stay around. More choice is allways better.

creamo... once you pay your dues and pick up your card we will have to be sworn enemies.. And you thought is was gonna be all fun and blood ceremonies?
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2002, 10:00:06 AM »

better simplify for blubber boy...

limiting the planeset for parity is a good thing (to a point) but axis vs allied is too limiting.
lazs

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2002, 11:34:22 AM »

I don't get it.. you don't like what lazs has to say, but you keep inviting him back.

Sheesh.. you two should just shut up and get married.

AKDejaVu