Author Topic: Russians threaten to pull out of Olympics. (Read 1032 times)

Nifty · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:25:55 AM »

hehe, until we get a bad non-call of the likes of Maradona's "Hand of God" in Mexico '86 (World Cup; semifinal I think) against England, we haven't seen bad refereeing.

As for the acting. Perhaps nothing. It's done in every sport where fouls/penalties are involved. It was getting so rampant in soccer that they started giving out yellow cards to the bad actors.

However, just because one embellishes the foul doesn't mean the foul didn't occur. If the Korean blocked down illegally, he should be disqualified, regardless of if Ohno embellished it.

I can't directly comment on the figure skating as I didn't watch it. From reviews, the Hughes girl skated her free skate flawlessly. The Russian girl lacked fire and didn't attempt her more difficult moves that she usually performs in the free skate. 9 judges are supposedly enough. I disagree. should have a judge from every country that's competing in the Games.

The Russians aren't the only people whining in this Olympics. Even Gretzky was getting into the whining the other day.

Fatty · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:26:03 AM »

From what I understand we got 1-3 in snowboarding halfpipe because it's such an idiotic sport nobody else entered?

Anyway this is more proof figure skating has to follow the rest of the judged sports right out the door.

Eagler · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:34:41 AM »

the problem with female figure skating ain't the judging, it is the body stockings they make them wear to hide the best part(s) about "figure" skating

midnight Target · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2002, 11:40:02 AM »

Miko, all true I'm sure, but it wasn't just genetics. Unless you are considering the number of X or Y chromosomes. Drug use has been proven for the East Germans and the Russians and don't forget the Press sisters.
Blood doping was thought to be detection proof, because it doesn't involve drugs. Athletes will continually donate their own blood, which is reduced to red blood cells only and reinjected before a big event. This increases the amount of oxygen the blood can carry significantly. That is what the Russian girl was caught doing.

mrfish · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:00:45 PM »

all i saw of russia vs usa was the figureskating competition.

i was cheering for michelle kwan but that slutskaaya chick clearly nailed her.

i was surprised because kwan tripped up and still got a better score! the russian chick was oooogly as sin, but her routine was right on the money and fair is fair.

i'd rather be remembered as fair than as a winner.

Tac · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:03:50 PM »

Yes midnight, but I really hope that its not a genetic thing.

Compare the red blood cell count of someone born and raised in California with that of someone born and raised in, say, Peru or the Himalayas.

The higher the altitude, the higher the red blood cell count.

But then again, if she did re-inject her own blood, then the red blood cell count wouldve been unholy high and obvious.

miko2d · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:22:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
Yes midnight, but I really hope that its not a genetic thing.

I do not know how our western sissy athletes train, but back in Soviet Union an athlete aspiring to a republican level (and we had 15 republics) was in training 24 hours a day 365 day a year with several trainers making sure he/she does not slack. He did not study, did not work for living, did not shop or cook - just trained.
Obviously they were equally made to cheat with drugs etc.

In my personal experience a junior boxer of 14 years had three 2.5 hour training sessions a day 6 days a week. A Soviet Union boxing champion in 1920th trained 2-3 hours 3 days a week if the trainer tales were to be believed.

No amount of willpower, determination etc. in an athlete could contribute a bit to the efficiency of training. More then enough of willpower and determination was supplied by the trainers - who's careers depended on the success of their charge.

Everything that a human could possibly give was taken from him/her, so the only variable was how much that human had to start with - genetics, prenatal care, early growth environment, etc. Not something that could be (legally) affected - only discovered and exploited.

miko

Boroda · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:44:36 PM »

What a crap...

Haemoglobin...

Incredible... When I regulary practiced mountain-hiking (at least 3 times a year, no less then a week, minimum of 160km mountain route, up to 350km in 2 weeks full load every summer) I showed extraordinary high haemoglobin on my blood analysis. Why didn't they ban me from the Army service?...

But well, it's OK. In 1936 someone didn't want black athlets to win too.

I hope our team will not leave the Olympics, but they definetly shouldn't participate in a closing ceremony. Or yankees will force them to maybe kiss that WTC flag. Even the Moscow Olympics were not turned into a dirty political farce like that.

I hope Fetisov's team will tear the US into a British flag. Unfortunately, they already said there will be a "special" doping test for our goalkeeper, and all referees will be Americans... Unprecedented loathsomeness.

And the most disturbing thing is that our NOC started to behave like that Canadian loosers. I saw a Russian team press-conference live, it was 4 AM here in Moscow, I just woke up to smoke. Our officials were stunned, they could barely speak, from what I understood - translation service didn't work very well...

What year it is now? 2002? I say - 1938... Deja vu?

In the Soviet times all eastern block athletes were professionals - officially holding jobs or attending colleges or serving in the army.

Just like American "college sportsmen".

They showed up at those places twice a months to sign for their salary, which was heavily augmented plus their housing etc. was supplied for free. Also guaranteed training jobs for the rest of their lives once their sports career was over.

It's not true, Miko, and you know it. Sorry.

[...]

Of course they (commies) had an unfair advantage over the real western amateurs who had to make a living and pay for their training, etc.

Miko, not "commies", but Soviet athlets. It's very unfair to hang labels like this onto people like Brumel', Bubka, Sal'nikov, Tretyak or Kharlamov.

It's all very sad... (sorry fo saying this again) Looks like a special campaign to make America an "enemy number one" for us. The indignation still didn't reach the level of spring-99, but it's very, very close...

NB: I want to "air" the current Russian public opinion. Sorry if I offended someone.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:51:21 PM »

Oh no, everyone's picking on the poor helpless Russians

Eagler · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2002, 12:58:46 PM »

Boroda

I, for one, do appreciate the fact they shaved their armpits for the occassion

midnight Target · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2002, 01:02:47 PM »

Wake up Boroda.....if your Hemoglobin level is 20-50 times normal you probably cheated. And EVERYONE gets the same testing.

College athletes get a free education, room and board and maybe help from rich alumni......not quite the same.

I have no problem with the Soviet "profesional" system, as long as we all get the same opportunities. The fact that you (Russia) were caught cheating and are whining about it is just incredible.

Sandman · « **Reply #26 on:** February 22, 2002, 01:10:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
What a crap...

Haemoglobin...

Incredible... When I regulary practiced mountain-hiking (at least 3 times a year, no less then a week, minimum of 160km mountain route, up to 350km in 2 weeks full load every summer) I showed extraordinary high haemoglobin on my blood analysis. Why didn't they ban me from the Army service?...

I'm guessing that there's a threshold. Certainly, there is a range of normal haemoglobin levels depending on the individual. Extradordinary is one thing. Abnormal is another.

Oh... and Sarah Hughes kicked ass...

Maniac · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2002, 01:17:53 PM »

For Women the Haemoglobin value for women max value is 160, and the russian lady had 168 in the test...

Dont know how much 8 points do + -

Boroda · « **Reply #28 on:** February 22, 2002, 01:23:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM

I'm guessing that there's a threshold. Certainly, there is a range of normal haemoglobin levels depending on the individual. Extradordinary is one thing. Abnormal is another.

Oh... and Sarah Hughes kicked ass...

Abnormal!? Larisa had 16.08-something when a threshold was 16.0... Everyone has personal lungs and ventilation. Alpinists, like Reingold Messner (my hero!), usually have extremely high ventilation, and, therefore - haemoglobin level. Only very few people can survive at 8000m and above for weeks. But it's their personal genes and training. Or should only "average" athlets be allowed at the Olympics?

BTW, haemoglobin is used only as a sign that _some_ drugs _probably_ _could_ be used. The problem is that they tested Larisa 1.5 hours before start and announced the results only 5 minutes before, so we couldn't reassign another athlet.

At least it's what Russian officials say. "I sell it at the same price I bought it". Waiting for Toad to explain - he always knows better and has extremely reliable sources, like American i-net tabloids.

miko2d · « **Reply #29 on:** February 22, 2002, 01:36:29 PM »

miko: They showed up at those places twice a months to sign for their salary, which was heavily augmented plus their housing etc. was supplied for free. Also guaranteed training jobs for the rest of their lives once their sports career was over.
Boroda: It's not true, Miko, and you know it. Sorry.
Not only do I know it to be true, it would not have made sence otherwise. The whole country was inspired by our sports teams, especially their performance abroad. What difference would it make to the country to have those people work their 8-hour days? Just to comply with the capitalist amateur rules?

Do you really believe that Major Tretyak was present every 6am at the reveille of his batallion? Military service is more then 8-hours a day, as I remember. Hard to keep training schedule. In fact while I was traning for my garrison competition on the modest 1 razryad level, I was freed from any kind of military service. If I had been good, I would have moved to the higher league and become a permanent sportsman for the whole term of my service - never having to do any actual serving.

Boroda: Miko, not "commies", but Soviet athlets. It's very unfair to hang labels like this onto people like Brumel', Bubka, Sal'nikov, Tretyak or Kharlamov.
By "commies" I ment the communist elite that controlled and directed the sports. Or the whole country that enjoyed the victories.
The athletes were regular hardworking people just like any other. They were made to cheat for the glory of the Soviet Union, I was made to liberate Afghani people... Whatever.

miko