CENSURE certain squad name ?

[Gunthr]

I guess where you stand on this issue depends on where you sit.

I'm an American far removed in both time and geography from the horrors of WWII.

Thanks to Warbirds and Aces High, I have dramatically increased my knowledge of World War II.

For example, I was ignorant of the existance of a German unit named Waffen SS until the name became controversial.

I wish that Aces High would be devoted to historical reality, because it is so educational and immersive. I want historical terrain, historical units, historical markings and historical performance models.

Anybody should be able to come into Aces High and say to themselves, "Wow, so this is what is was like!"

The world today has changed so dramatically since WWII that the danger doesn't lie in allowing groups to name themselves after despicable organizations, but in forgetting that these organizations existed.

Somebody has to be the bad guy in any game. Somebody has to be the enemy!

To deface aircraft and sanitize culture from that era is the wrong thing to do, from where I sit.

At the same time, I do have deep respect for the feelings of our dear friends who have personally suffered at the hands of the enemy, whoever that may have been.

 

http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm"" TARGET=_blank>332nd Flying Mongrels


 

[Zemke]

 

this thread is not about POLITICALY CORRECT but more about education and respect for the fallen.

That depends on your point of view STRAFFO, but lets talk about your point of view. If this thread is about respect for the fallen, why are you trying to make sure we forget about them??  

[straffo]

you want me to forget my own familly ?
NO WAY !

[straffo]

As I'm not American I don't care of PC that's the problem of the American not mine.PC is roadkill as it disguise the truth under words without real sense!
It has appared somewhere in this thread by someone who has not taken the time to read the whole messages.

I just can't support someone to glorify nazism in any way (incentive or not) that's for me the real point. And I've not reacted against JG2/JG54 or other axis (not nazis) squadron.

Why the hell don't you have choosen the name III./Pz.Rgt."Großdeutschland" for exemple ? I've nothing to say about this squad ...

What I reproach to you is that you have choosen a generic and infamic name!
But don't take it personnal it's not intended to you.And I can live with your squad name the good point is that has provoqued a debate between lot of us.


(sorry for my english I'm a poor French  bastard )

[ygsmilo]

Zemke something you should think about:

Follow the three R's: Respect for self, respect for others and responsibility for all your actions.



------------------
JG 2's current cannon magnet

Milo

[SpyHawk]

My $0.02

To sanitize or otherwise cencur history is to rewrite history for those exposed to the sanitization who do not have the knowledge to question it.

To take that a step further: Those who do not remember history (as it really happened) are condemned to repeat it.

Thus it is in the best interest of humanity that the horrible attrocities of WWII never be cencured, hidden, or otherwise sanitized.

[fradim]

I am brazilian and sincerely I really try not to care as much as americans do to what is politically correct. But in my opinion we should show more respect to the people who has had such past experiences.

What is in a name? Well, lots of meanings. There´s nothing wrong flying a plane like a BF 109, as long as it has not a swatska. There´s nothing wrong driving a Panzer either. They are both only equipments, machines ... But when you choose a historical name to your squad you´re doing an option for something who has a meaning, no matter what you think. It´s obvious that when you choose this name you certainly feel you are paying a tribute to their history, actions included - bad or not.

>The only solution I can see is to make a
>list of units during ww2 that committed
>horrendus acts and ban the names. That
>should include Russian, German, Japanese,
>US, British and any other country involved.
>We can make a web site and document the
>atrocities.

That´s not a bad idea, Kats. But if nobody wants to do it, we could at least take it seriously when someone points out a real case.

Last but not least, I agree the best way to deal with these things is not to ask hitech to censor it but to discuss it here in a public forum, in which everybody can express their feelings and beliefs, something that will allways enrich our experience. If we can do a honest and free discussion, I am sure that in most cases people will understand these points when they show themselves strong and fair.

fradim

[This message has been edited by fradim (edited 07-18-2000).]

[F4UDOA]

Well I think this thread has pretty well seperated people for what they really are. I don't think there is any doubt after a quote
like what Exbelanger has to say  

. A squad named "I raped and tortured 4 niggaz before pissing on a Star of David" would not cause me to avoid AH although I might puke at the thought of seeing it.

And Zemke you speak for yourself, although your lack of anything to say makes me believe that you couldn't express yourself anymore than you have without exposing yourself as A. An Idiot or B. A wanna be Storm Trooper with real issues.

This is not about freedom of expression because there is no expression. It is here to get a reaction and that is what they have done. The answer, ignore them completely including anyone in there squad and offer no other communication during the game or on the Boards. In anycase I hope there is no more confusion about what these individuals are trying to express.

History is what it is. It will not change to glorify the acts of what was really the worlds largest army of thieves and prophetiers in the history of the world. The Nazis Killed so they could steal and have no witnesses. They stole from an entire race of people and many countries along the way. People like that make me sick as do people who trivialize the single greatest conflict between a clear right and wrong the world has ever known. If you still think it is so trivial why don't you go to a veterns group meeting and tell them about your feeling Zemke. See how trivial they feel towards you.

Later
F4UDOA

[Zemke]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
And Zemke you speak for yourself, although your lack of anything to say makes me believe that you couldn't express yourself anymore than you have without exposing yourself as A. An Idiot or B. A wanna be Storm Trooper with real issues.

Too funny. Other people were defending me so well I seldom felt need to comment.

 

In anycase I hope there is no more confusion about what these individuals are trying to express.

You mean we are trying to express that WW2 was much more than a nifty backdrop for a flight sim? Ok we are not confused any more. Thanks, ta ta... run along and play now...  

 

History is what it is.

I didn't know that....... No, really, I didn't...  

 

If you still think it is so trivial why don't you go to a veterns group meeting and tell them about your feeling Zemke. See how trivial they feel towards you.

Wait I'm confused   First you blast me for not commenting, then you imply you know what I "think" ? Your a funny man, what do you think guys should we take him seriously?

Ok I am not trying to start a flame war(another reason I have not been commenting to much on this thread)but I could not resist this once.... So respond if you must, you probably won't get a response from me

 

Later
F4UDOA[/B]

[Zemke]

 

Originally posted by straffo:

Why the hell don't you have choosen the name III./Pz.Rgt."Großdeutschland"

Because that is way to much to type...

 

What I reproach to you is that you have choosen a generic and infamic name!

Well I needed to think of something fast, I have been considering changing it to the "1st or 2nd waffen ss panzer division" (still alot to type, I hate long names) or mebe "Kampfgruppe Peiper"

[straffo]

You would better to avoid using KG Peiper
read this 1st :  http://www.users.skynet.be/bulgecriba/thetrap.html
Sad indeed   no prisonners ...

why don't you choose an Heer pzr div ?


[This message has been edited by straffo (edited 07-19-2000).]

[BigJim]

LOL this thread is tooo funny, some kid "bates" the community with his little "game name" and we all fall for it.  Well I agree with Apache, just forget it and he will go away like "kids" needing attention he is eating this up.

BigJim

PS You can squelch me again anytime Zempke LOL

[blitz]

Hi zemke,

i don't know u in real life and i have no reasons to think that youre a bad boy there
but to choose the name "Waffen SS" simply wasn't a good idea.
For many americans that name seem to be ok, but many of the pilots flying against/with you are from europe and for most of these the name "Waffen SS" has a very bad taste.
Italy,poland,greece,jugoslavia, france, netherlands, russia, belgium, tscheholovakia ,to name a few, suffert a lot from the "Waffen SS" units.
In germany + austria the name is banned and the "Waffen SS" is classified as a criminal organization.
Using that name for your squad you hurt the feelings of many players here very badly and it sure takes away a lot of fun  
I don't think you wanted that when you choosed that name.
 Please think about it and change that name.

blitz

[This message has been edited by blitz (edited 07-19-2000).]

[Westy]

 I can't wait till there is a Vietnam era sim and I can call my squad the Kmher Rouge FG.

 -Westy

(has about this much   ><  respect for Zemke and his squad.)

[Ripsnort]

I have a suspicion that this is one of the AGW posters that flamed AH, and is now flying  AH, trying to save face by not admitting his true identity (i.e. 'I was wrong about AH'), but yet hates our community for what AH has exposed within the other flight sim communities, a sense of insecurity.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts he is an ex-warbirder that we all know by another name. I seriously doubt that anyone would innocently use Waffen SS in their squad name, and then defend it without knowing how the community would react to it.    

------------------
Ripsnort(-rip1-)
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
Panzer Group Afrika~15th Panzer Division~[/i]
Click here for VMF-323 Death Rattlers info
  Click here for VMF-323 Website
Click here for 15th Panzer info
   
"Dissing me here will get you no where, and your clan of AH'ers can't
help you here pal. You are in my house now, and the maturity level here
sees past your chirade. Don't tread on me buckaroo!
MG(Macboy) July 7th, AGW


[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 07-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 07-19-2000).]