Author Topic: What exactly was pre-1.04 like? (Read 827 times)

Tac · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2002, 11:14:32 AM »

That FM had very low E-retention, that was about it I think. There was no combat trim either.

Your plane could be going 450 mph and with a mere 45 degree turn without pulling hard the plane would slow down to about 200mph.

What was REALLY good about that FM was that the planes had real torque issues. For example, in the F4U, it was almost IMPOSSIBLE to finish the top portion of the loop unless you chopped down the throttle to about half... otherwise the torque would spin you out in a snap. Now? Now you can be at 100mph nose up in that thing with full WEP on and just feel a slight pull to the side. The spit was an incredible turner (mainly because almost every fight ended up slow and turning), but its torque wouldnt let it stallfight at the 95mph speeds it can fight at now. P-38 would dive and zoom great, but if you even dared turn or got yourself low and slow, you were screwed..just like the Jug and P-51.

The ONLY thing I miss from that FM is that Torque. I dont believe its the CTrim that took the torque away, I can take off with a non-trimmed (all tabs centered) F4U and do a loop with full wep on making the top part of the loop at 100mph without getting into a really nasty spin.

Wilbus · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2002, 11:23:37 AM »

I had every single version and little update and patch but all disapiered in Hard drive crash

Pongo · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2002, 12:56:42 PM »

What was it like?
It was better.

niklas · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2002, 01:00:34 PM »

it was the time where no fighter could fly a sustained turn with more than 2G...

The P38 introduction.... i ll never forget it

niklas

skernsk · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2002, 01:19:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Pongo
What was it like?
It was better.

I disagree. I think that not being able to do more than two evasives without the stall horn blaring in your ear was not better. As with any version it has a bit of a learning curve to it when they make big changes .. now I'm so used to this FM that I prefer it over the old one.

Replicant · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2002, 01:27:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DaLadyzMon
Does anyone have the actual .exe files for the original versions of AH? I know someone posted a long time ago, but wanted to get my hands on some of those. My email is DaLadyzMon@aol.com, if anyone is willing to send me those. Thanks!

I have version 0.49 onwards still on my hard drive. I did have some earlier releases but they seem to have been deleted.

Regards

Nexx

Furious · « **Reply #21 on:** March 01, 2002, 01:32:00 PM »

I liked the pre 1.04 FM better, as I think it was better suited to fighting over the internet.

F.

Wotan · « **Reply #22 on:** March 01, 2002, 02:02:08 PM »

pongo and furious are right it was better.

I dont recall losing 200mph in a 45 degree turn though. the 205 was the toejame then...........

skernsk · « **Reply #23 on:** March 01, 2002, 02:32:42 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Furious
I liked the pre 1.04 FM better, as I think it was better suited to fighting over the internet.

can you explain? I am not asking this to start and argument, but I want to know what you mean by better for internet fighting.

I honestly don't remember much of the old FM except you could not evade worth a damn. Once you tried turning you stalled after about 11/2 turns. I don't remember being able to scissor like you can now either.

The way it is now a fight can last for a lot longer and you can be much more aggresive in your maneuvering without fear of losing control. I also remember much higher fights than this model (which is not a bad thing about the old way).

funkedup · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2002, 04:09:17 PM »

Planes pre-1.04 had too much induced drag when pulling g's. This was proven by flight test data as well as engineering analysis. Some of our better community scientists and historians made a very good case for the change. HTC listened, evaluated their research and their mathematical model, and made the fix.

I have to admit I was against it at first because I was under the common delusion that harder is more realistic. But the evidence just kept piling up that something was wrong with the game, and I realized that my preconcieved notions were wrong. The FM change clearly improved historical accuracy, and that is always a change for the better.

Furious · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2002, 04:57:19 PM »

Skernsk,

Not to start a whole big fight, but I "feel" that the 1.03 flight model kept folks honest within the context of an internet connection based game. The direction changes were slower and it "seemed" to be smoother.

I "think" the fights last longer now because outlandish manuevers, that the internet can't keep up with, have little or no effect on the users plane. And because the internet can't keep up, the normal clues as to direction of flight and change of direction are gone.

How many times have you seen a spit just floating in space in front of you? You know it has pulled some high G manuever,but you have no idea what it was and you won't for a second or two. Now he is into his second manuever and you haven't begun to counter the first.

The pre 1.04 model exacted a greater price on the plane for that manuever, which I "believe" lessened the delay of the internet's impact on the game. (Is that a comprehensible sentence?)

...or perhaps its just misplaced nostalgia. I do, however, really miss all that tourqe. It was a freaking accomplishment to get a F4U in the air and back down safely. Hell, I used to have fly the 109g10 off the bases with cliffs to get it airborne. After 1.04 it all seemed so simple. I guess you can put in the camp of "screw realism" on this issue; I liked it more challenging.

F.

Hooligan · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2002, 05:38:01 PM »

IMHO Pre-1.04 skill just wasn't as important in the fights. Because the planes bled energy so rapidly it was much easier to use a superior energy state to kill an enemy. It was much harder to get out an attackers way, much less turn the tables on them. Pre-1.04 AH was easier if you only accepted fights when you had an advantage. It was much harder if accepted fights on all terms.

Hooligan

Pongo · « **Reply #27 on:** March 01, 2002, 09:25:35 PM »

It was more fun to dogfight before. Less frame rate dependent. Gunfire was more predictible. I dont know what is more realistic but I enjoyed the game more then. You could actually force the energy out of the bad guy before. With some bad guys its nearly imposible now.
More skill to fly now..I think not. It still comes down to accuracy and fire avoidance. Accuracy I have never really gotten the hang of since. Fire avoidance has changed from a desparate move or two befor you paid the price to endless out of plane manuvers and bobbing bad guys...
Like I said, I have no idea what is realistic. Just what I like.

Karnak · « **Reply #28 on:** March 01, 2002, 11:27:49 PM »

Pre-1.04 the A6M couldn't break turn its way out of a paper bag. This will tell you all you need to know about the Spitfire's ability to not break turn out of a paper bag.

Because the turners couldn't hope to evade the BnZers it made the BnZers very proud of their K/D ratios. It fed into their preconcieved notions of how easy it was to kill Spits 'n Zeros.

The fact is that it took disipline and teamwork to kill the turners in reality. Disipline not to be suckered into a turn fight and teamwork to setup the shot.

In pre-1.04 AH it just took not being a horid shot. A good shot would get the turner nearly every time. There was no danger of being suckered into a turn fight because there was no way for him to turn out of your way more than 2-3 times and hence no inclination to try to pull your nose over him to lead a shot, accidendily bleeding E.

Pre-1.04 was a cakewalk if you flew fast BnZ aircraft, it was torture if you liked things like the A6M5b.

Samm · « **Reply #29 on:** March 01, 2002, 11:55:33 PM »

I kind of miss the pre 1.04 typhoon .