More swastika

[Angus]

I have something to add to the glowing hot topic of the swastika and its origin.
Look at the picture at this address:

http://eimskip.is/images/Innlent/small/Bls60.jpg

It is the main building of the Icelandic steam ship company, who's symbol is and always was, the one you can see on the picture.
Not the swastika, but what we call the Thor's hammer.
Looking closely, it turns the arms turn different from what they do on the Nazi swastika, but I belive the origin is more or less the same.
This symbol however has nothing to do with Nazis, its just an old nordic symbol.
So, HTC, for those sensitive souls who can not fly planes with a swastika on it, maybe you could use this one instead, muhahahaha

[P38Luftwaffe]

It is said, that the Luftwaffe expecially its pilots were not strong upholders of the National Socialism belief. They refused to change the IRON CROSS insignia on their wings TO the swastika. They fought for the Fatherland, not for Hitler. It is my personal opinion, that the swastika be placed on the Luftwaffe plans purly for HISTORICAL PURPOSES. Let me make clear, i am NOT a believer in Nazism. However, i am a person who does love history, and its preservation. When american/british/etc pilots fought the luftwaffe, they saw this symbol on the tail. It is merly a preservation of historical accuracy in my view. For instance, i am a very patrotic citizen of the U.S.. I respectfully, do not like communism (not said to offend). But i am NOT offended when i see a red star on the soviet aircraft, because i realize that was what it looked liked in the 1940s. You must relize, Satlin's communism was ALMOST as bad as nazi-ism. He had ethnic cleasning, he even killed is own officers!. But the red star is acceptable, why not the swastika? My intentions here is not to start a riot or anything over this, just simply want people to see an alternative way of looking at it.

[illo]

just by the way...

Well actually stalin killed few times more people then hitler. Nearly 20 million estimated.

[Urchin]

I'll counter with the same old.  Why should AH add swastikas to the German planes?  What would it add?  Did the swastikas make the planes fly faster, turn better, or shoot straighter?  No?  Then they honestly don't add anything as far as I'm concerned.  

On the negative side, swastikas are outlawed in Germany, so all of our German players wouldn't be allowed to play AH (at least legally).  It may offend some people and keep them from playing AH, which would mean lost revenue for HTC.  

On a slightly different note, some Luftwaffe pilots were radical Nazi's, and some weren't.  I do believe that membership in the Nazi party was strongly encouraged, if not mandatory.

[Kweassa]

This really isn't a A&V Forum material.. should go to the O'Club.

 But if I add my opinion..

 Nazism itself isn't the same as anti-semitism, but the overall majority of the people of the Western civilization at that time were more or less anti-semitic. Once the hardlined opposition against Nazism failed to prevent Hitler's rise to power in 1933, and as the Nazional Sozialisten Partei took its grip over Germany, I think it can be said the less activistic majority of the populace, whether or not agreed on the other political issues the NAZI party offered, were to a degree associated in one way or another(ranging from vague hate feelings towards Jews to active support for the NAZI party) with the NAZI crimes against the 'Juden'.

 Having experienced this otrocity, and finding out what the NAZIS really did to the Jews(and also, the guilt feelings of not being able to prevent the genocide as a citizen of the country), Germany(if i remeber correctly) has taken the principle of limiting certain freedoms of the populace if the consequence of those free actions are in support of a certain ideology that denounces the very existence of democratic rights of the people itself. Therefore, the freedom of speech and expression, if it supports NAZISM, is self-contradictory action that undermines the fundamentals of democracy - therefore outlawed - in Germany.

 In the case of USA, (if I also remember this one correctly), any supportive/propagandistic expressions and statements towards NAZIsm itself cannot be outlawed since USA translates its constitution in a way that the first amendment supports the freedom of speech and expression - even to those in support of NAZIsm.

 I remember seeing an comparative case of Germany(and the Europe) and the USA. NAZIsm is outlawed in Germany, and most of Europe, I believe, supports the same principles as Germany has. The concern and protest of the European people against the Ultra Rightwing Government that emerged recently in Austria was a good example of this.

 Now, in the USA, I remember reading about an article in TIME magazine. Not being able to punish people for the reason of following NAZISM itself, the people opposing NAZI supporters in the USA have taken actions and filed a lawsuit against a certain local NAZI club for damages to private property and threatening the mental peace and order of the town.

 Which is right, the European way? or the American way? I cannot say for sure since I'm an Asian(but I do tend to agree more to the European way, since my own country suffered under Japan, and most of the people today express concern towards the vocal and active nature and political influence of rightwing parties in Japan).

 I guess when the chips fall, we can only respect what the German government has decided, and what HTC has decided in this matter in their own little quest for world domination in the combat flight sim category (hehehe). Seeing the Swastikas on LW planes would help a little immersion in my personal preference, but as long as there are people offended by it, and some people are denied the pleasure of this good game as long as the symbol exists.. I say we should not add the Swastikas to AH planes.

[Seeker]

One of the reasons the Swatstika is so frowned upon, while the Red Star slips by is that there are no (or an insignificant amount) people walking around today who try to recreate the past and rally people to the banner of the Red Star.

There are, of course, hard line reconstrutionists inside Russia and some former statelite countries, but it's still extremely unlikely any of us will ever see a riot caused in our streets by thugs waving a Red Star banner (please God).

The same is not true of the Swatstika. Disregarding some of the current threads on this board regarding the attitude of the German people in the first half of the last centuary, it remains a fact, almost a centuary after the horrors of totalitarianism are known, studied and published that if the Swatstika is allowed as a rallying symbol in your town, you *will* sooner or later have social unrest caused by skinheads marching under it.

And they're just the ignorant, visible symptom of the re-emergence of Fascism.

Even in Britain, which one suppose to be the anti-thesis of the Riech, neo-Nazism remains enough of a threat to warrant serious, considered attention.