Author Topic: US Steel industry issues.  (Read 304 times)

Offline miko2d

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US Steel industry issues.
« on: March 06, 2002, 10:58:20 AM »
Quite a thread there on US steel tarifs with people trowing generalities back and forth. I bet most of participants rushed to post rather then read reputable sources.
 I thought I would provide a few points for those who do not venture beyong this board. It will not be as good as reading a real article though.

 The capitalism in US is not a political system. It is a state of economy life like sunshine or hurricane are states of weather. We do have capitalism because there are no laws restricting ownersip of means of production but here the legal stuf pretty much ends.
 The laws of capitalism are very different from legal laws. They really are laws of nature - just like in physics. You do not enact them. You cannot even violate them. You can ignore them at your own risk - what US seems to be doing. There is no consious component in capitalism.

 Our political life is determined by our legal laws and political realities. Democracy is the most important part of it. There is no requirement for a politician to obey the laws of capitalism or nature in general - only the wishes of it's constituents.

 Having free trade is all nice, but politicians have to do what their electorate demands, not laws of nature or common sense.

The steel makers and their workers are a powerful domestic lobby, partly because they are largely concentrated in a few rustbelt states. Mr Bush unexpectedly won West Virginia in the 2000 presidential election, largely because of President Bill Clinton’s failure to do anything to help the steel industry. Mr Bush did not win Pennsylvania, where some of America’s biggest integrated steel producers are based. But he hopes that decisive action to help the steel industry now might help the chances of Republican candidates in Pennsylvania and other north-eastern states in the mid-term congressional elections in November.

 Why the heck blame the president if he is doing what people who elected him want? Blaming us all would be more reasonable.

 What justifications do they present?
The aim, says the administration, is to give the steel industry a breathing space—time to restructure and modernise to cope with foreign competition. Much of this competition, the industry alleges, is unfair since many foreign steel companies enjoy government subsidies.

 That is true - many foreign countries support their steel industries and for some good reasons besides economical, like steel being a stategic industry that a country may need in time of war or other emergency even if the suppliers are not able or willing to continue selling it.

 Why are the american companies are failing? Exellent quality resulting in higher cost is not really the reason.
One of the key problems that the large integrated steel companies face is not so much that of inefficient production but expensive medical and pension benefits to which retired workers are entitled and with which the companies are now saddled. History suggests that the protection of the sort now being extended to the steel sector simply enables the industry concerned yet again to postpone the day of reckoning.
 It would make sense to allow for the companies to go bancrupt so that their current unionised workers and former employees who enjoyed "lavish" pensions and health benefits lost their livelihood and learned to deal with like the rest of us. Then the new smaller companies (new technology does allow small "mini-mills" to be competitive) not burdened with the traditional expencive pension and health plans or unions would be competitive again. Unfortunately or fortunately all those pesky workers and retirees have votes and they are concentrated to make those votes count.

 US consumers will have to pay more for products that have steel in them. The alternative is to pay for the unemployment benefits and Supplementary Security Income for people who lose their jobs and their pensions/health coverage. As a free-marketeer I would opt for the second one - life is risk and most of those benefits were wrangled by the union blackmail tactics that were sure to ruin the industry. They should reap the fruit, so to speak.
 Well, I have only my single vote and I am disappointed by this move by Bush. May be he knows something that I don't but I suspect he just went softhearted on those workers.

 By the way, The tariffs, from which Canada and Mexico, as members of the North American Free-Trade Area, are exempt, have been imposed for three years.
 Hopefully they will not be renewed. Hopefully we do not get a full-scale trade war in the next few months.

 miko

P.S. Oh, yes - the blue quotes are from the Economist.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2002, 11:40:59 AM by miko2d »

Offline ygsmilo

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US Steel industry issues.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2002, 11:28:32 AM »
A trade war would be a bad thing for all other countries.

Look at the debt to equity ratios is most countries compared to the US ---- Their debt load internally is offset by the revenue they generate via exports to the US or countries that base currencies against the US Dollar -- without those exports they would strangle any internal lending ability that they have to grow their economies.

Japan is a classic example-- their economy is in a downward spiral due to thier inability to write off bad debt in their banking sector.  Look what the dollar vrs the yen has done the past year.  That is why it is hard for the US to compete in a market where the government has import tarriffs,,, not only are they subsidising the local businesses but they incur outright loses in order to protect those industries.... In the long run term they create a debt laden beast that they cant get rid of.

Just wait till the Chinese,  who are now a part of the WTO, start to create "new" trade barriers.  We are already seeing in some of the new GMO issues inregards to imports of soybeans and corn.

Ramblings,,,,,,,,,,

Out.

Offline gavor

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US Steel industry issues.
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2002, 11:52:44 PM »
Thats right, ruin the fun with 'statistics' and 'facts'.

pffff


:)

Offline Gadfly

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US Steel industry issues.
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2002, 06:36:04 AM »
Here is a fact, I just got a letter saying my steel prices are going up 20% across the board, as of March 30.  From a domestic source.  Why is that, just because they can?

Offline Toad

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US Steel industry issues.
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2002, 07:29:31 AM »
Miko:

What's your view on the "competitiveness" of US steel vis-a-vis the current strength of the US dollar? Do you agree with Milo that a strong dollar makes US exports much less competitive? If so, how much is that effect? What's your suggestion for making all our exports more competitive if this is the case?

Secondly, last time I looked, (1998 Numbers) there was overcapacity in the steel industry; the world produced 776 million metric tons and of that 275 million metric tons was overcapacity. Someone's going out of business unless there's about a 30% increase in demand, right?

Lavish Pensions? They must have tough time deciding between driving the Rolls Royce or the Ferrari down to the Club for lunch, right?

"The average USX retiree who worked between 30 and 40 years in the mills gets a pension of only about $700 a month. Surviving spouses of steelworkers are limited to collecting pension money for a maximum of five years. After that they are cut off. Many surviving spouses never collect a penny because the company does little to inform them of the limited benefits to which they are entitled."


Retired US steelworkers oppose agreement with USX Corp.
 
Compare and contrast the "pension" for steelworkers who spend 40 years in the mills with the "pension" for Enron's Lay:

"Rather than rely on an ESOP or a risky 401(k) for his own retirement, Lay got Enron to guarantee him an annual pension of $457,042 for life."

But the, he did put in 15 years with Enron as the Chairman.....  before Enron imploded. ~ Half a million for life for supervising the destruction of a company.....AND it's employees lives.


Retirement, Enron Style
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline capt. apathy

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US Steel industry issues.
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2002, 07:40:19 AM »
My personal opinion on import taxes is that they should be equal to the taxes that would be collected on that product had it been manufactured in the US.

I also see no problem with restrictions on imports from countries that don't meet certain environmental or humanitarian benchmarks.

This WTO free trade thing scares the hell out of me; it just seems to guarantee the rich in each country to exploit their workers as they see fit.