Originally posted by Durr:
One of the things that is often overlooked when talking about whether a plane sucks or not is what it was flying against mostly. The P-38 did very well in the Pacific theatre where its strengths of speed, range, and hi altitude performance were perfect against the Jap planes, most of which were very good at dogfighting but not all that fast and with poor hi altutude characteristics. (yes i know there were some fast Japanese fighters later in the war but for most of the war they were not) The P-38 didnt do so well against the Germans except later when it had the advantage of overwhelming numbers. One of the reasons for this was that most of the German fighters were more maneuverable AND as fast or very nearly so. The Brewster Buffalo is an example of the opposite. Against the opposition of the Russians who mostly had sucky planes earlier on the Buffalo did well. Even later it did well because it had a maneuverability advantage. Against the Zero however the Buffalo had no relative advantage in any area. The Zero could take it down in turn fighting or in energy fighting since it was faster and more maneuverable. However I agree that pilot quality, training, experience, and teamwork are far more important than the plane that they happen to be flying. On the other hand though a great plane can make a good pilot out of a mediocre one sometimes.
I think your use of the P-38 as an example is way off base, probably due to some of the popular myths.
The performance of the P-38 against the Luftwaffe was very good in the MTO, over North Africa, and over Italy.
As far as the 8th Air Force over Europe and Germany is concerned, there the P-38 faced between 3:1 and 5:1 odds against it until late 43 and early 44. It faced the very best pilots the Luftwaffe had, with some very green pilots. The majority of the losses to the P-38s occured during close escort duty when facing the above mentioned 3+:1 odds. Facing these odds and more experienced pilots, the P-38 managed to kill 1.5 Luftwaffe planes for every P-38 lost during the very worst period of its deployment. that includes all losses of P-38s, due to accidents, navigational errors, and mechanical failures.
On the other hand, in the hands of pilots with more experience, like those who came to Europe from other theaters, it did very well, even against overwhelming odds.
There were far too many pilots doing far too well against the Luftwaffe for it to have been the plane. John Lowell, Jack Ilfrey, John Lowell, Ervin Ethell, Lawrence Blumer, and a host of others did very well, scoring many kills, four of the five were aces, and all but Blumer did it early in the war.
When you look at the performance against the Luftwaffe in other theaters, you may realize that the P-38 did have serious problems, like other planes, but the 8th failed to learn to deal with it. The 9th and the 15th did very well against the Luftwaffe, and then later in many cases, so did the 8th squadrons still flying the P-38.
The P-38 fought AGAINST overwhelming odds in Europe with the 8th until early in 44, and was used in greater numbers than the P-51 until April/May 1944, when the P-51 was available in equal numbers. It is generally conceded by both sides that the Luftwaffe was finished by April as an effective fighting force with a chance at over all victory. Only by April did the P-38 face the enemy with an equal number of Allied fighters in the battle.
Knowing a few hot P-38 pilots and speaking with them on a regular basis, I've learned that the P-38 was an even better plane than I originally thought. I've also learned that the USAAF and the War Production Board were responsible for holding back development of the P-38, and for poor training of pilots and ground crews in handling the P-38.
Ground crews failed to properly maintain the P-38, and multi engine pilot training was woeful. The P-38 was extremely complex and difficult to fly, the untrained pilot was in deep, but a good pilot in a P-38 was a stone killer.
Ervin Ethell managed to knock down 4 109s facing near 20:1 odds early in the war, without even so much as a single hole in his P-38G.
Consider that Blumer knocked down 5 FW 190s in less than 15 minutes, and Lowell nearly killed Galland himself with a P-38 against a 190, I doubt very seriously the P-38 was really a poor performer against the Luftwaffe.
Every single P-38 pilot I've spoken with including those who transitioned to the P-51 said the P-38 was a better performer, and said that the P-38 was more than a match in combat for any Luftwaffe plane save the Me 262. They've told me repeatedly the P-38 would climb, accelerate, and turn with the very best of the Luftwaffe. It did have a slight disadvantage in top speed to a few, a limit in dive speed, and the pre J models were a little slow to roll at high speed. On the other hand, it was either equal to or it held an advantage in climb rate, both sustained and instant, acceleration, and turn rate both sustained and instant when compared to any of its contemporaries Allied or Luftwaffe/Axis.
Renegade Savage
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Renegade Savage ]
