Battle of Britain..

[J_A_B]

What about using a TBM for an Allied bomber in such a BOB setup?

The TBM is slow, doesn't have much in the way of defensive capability, sucks at high altitude, and doesn't have that huge a bombload--perfect as a "generic early Allied bomber" sub.

Granted it's tougher than Bostons and Blenheims and such, but the German fighters have cannons so they could definately kill it, in addition to the fact that the Ju-88 is also superior to the more proper He-111.  

Lack of a Stuka won't be a problem since nobody would fly it anyway except for the joy of hearing that dive siren.

You'd end up with 109E's, 110C's and Ju-88's versus Spit 1's, Hurri 1's and TBM's.  Not a bad setup although it slightly favors the German side.  Arena settings/victory goals could compensate

J_A_B

[Tac]

BoB was basically brit fighters vs lw bombers & escorts.

I'd say use the euro map (duh),

Enable spit1 free,C202 (replacement for pre-V spits, and its got no hispano) at 2 pnt perk cost , hurri1 free,hurriIID (hell, give the limeys at least 1 cannon ride ) at 2 pnt perks costfor Brits

Enable Ju88 free, Ki67 (as replacement for HE111) at 2 pnt perk cost, IL2 (replacement for STUKA) free,109E free,109F4 at 2 pnt perk cost, and 110C4 free for LW.

Brits have M16 enabled.

NO other vehicles allowed. No m3's no flaks, no tanks.

Objective of LW would be to flatten RAF fields, Fuel, ammo and troop factories.

Rebuild times would be 4X longer than normal (no resupply allowed from goons/m3's since they are disabled).

Victory conditions:

LW: 80% of RAF fields closed OR bring fuel/ammo/troop factories down to 20% each.

RAF: Dont let the LW attain their victory conditions.

[Nashwan]

The 109F4 would be unbalancing (even as a perk) and historically innacurate. It has less right to be in than the Spit V (less unbalancing, earlier therefore less innacurate), and the Spit V shouldn't be there either.

I can't see an IL2 working as a sub for the Ju87, as Karnak said almost impossible to shoot down with 303s, whilst the real Ju87 was an easy target.

Spit I, Hurri I, TBM vs 109E, 110C and Ju88 sounds ideal to me.

[SKurj]

JU88 and Ki67 are much faster than the actual buffs used in BoB....
May make interception kinda tough

And errm I could be wrong but did ANY LW buff in BoB have cannon?

And the fuel multiplier will be??  109's had 20 mins over britain max didn't they?


SKurj

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by SKurj
JU88 and Ki67 are much faster than the actual buffs used in BoB....

Um...duh....but the JU88 WAS one of the actual buffs used in BoB.

- Oldman

[SKurj]

JU88 may have been in BOB, BUT it was not the more common bomber used, and was it the variant modelled in AH or an earlier SLOWER model?


SKurj

[Karnak]

Ju88A-4 was too late to participate in the BoB.

Ju88A-1 and Ju88A-5 did participate, the A-5 being similar to the A-4 except having different engines.

I have no problems with the Ju88A-4 being used for a BoB Ju88.

The Ki-67 in no way resembles a BoB German bomber.

It is WAY faster, faster than Hurri Is.  It has vastly better defensive firepower, 12.7mm and 20mm instead of single 7.92mm.  It has a much smaller bomb load, 800kg vs 2000kg.

Attacking bombers in AH is already harder because the bombers run at full power instead of cruising power, E.G. 280mph bombers instead of 180-200mph bombers.  I certainly don't want to be forced to attact a 340mph bomber that is defended by twin 50s in the tail and 20mm in the dorsal with a 355mph fighter armed only with .303s.

[Wotan]

well were not running a historical scenario however i wouldn't allow the 109f......or spit v

put an alt cap on the ju88 (dunno how you would enforce it except through the honor system) at 15k.

Folks like field capture for some reason.....mostly milkrunnin..........

but if you force the axis to invade via lvts and give the brits the tbm and a couple of fleets to patrol the channel it would be tolerable......driving from calais to england in a lvt would take a week itself so we need a spawn point .........

the only problem would be we would need an axis fleet with flight from the carrier disabled. It could simulate escorts for the landing craft. You would need to increase the rebuild time on fleets though.

This would give the brits the advantage in the channel and an advantage of fighting defensively.

The fuel modifier would need to be set so the 109e have limited flight time over england.

Again with the limited planeset on and gameplay I dont know how much mass appeal this set up would have.

Once fields are captured in England enable m3 and pnzrs (m8) and allow 109es only at a few bases..........

It would be the most limiting planeset yet.

I wouldn't like to see a bunch of planes that were not available for bob be used.

we need some substitutes obviously...the tbm, ju-88a4, lvts, m8 would be all..............

Anyway its only I week I would prefer this to any of the onesided pac set ups or fantasy land........

[lazs2]

come on guys... BOB!  If you don't get all anal about it it is your chance to beat up on mean ol talentless lazs.  
lazs

[Sabre]

Well, that clinches it!  If it gets Lazs, the arch nemesis of the CT, in there then we got to do it:D.  Actually, I'm still leaning towards a period that would cover the last stages of the Battle for France, which would (if the Germans did their job well) transition into the Battle of Britain.

Planeset would be Hurr-I, Spit-I, and possibly the C202 (to represent the Curtis Hawk or another French fighter, if the armament and speed are a reasonable match), versus the 109E, 110C, Ju88.  M-8's would take the place of tanks, with M-3's and M-16's to provide troop mobility and mobile AAA.  I'm toying with the idea of also subing the LVT(4) as a sub for the French main battle tank, but need to look at that a little more.  The French tank was superior to the German tanks except in speed, as I recall.  Again, got to do a little more research.  No C-47 would be allowed, I think.
Sabre
CT Team

[Wilbus]

Uhmm, the big Char was only superior in armor and puch (one 75mm low velocity gun + a 37mm anti tank gun).

If you're talking about the smaller french tanks those weren't superior to the german ones, other way around almost. Specially in 1940 BoB time (where france was allready beaten of course).

Like the setup though.

[hazed-]

Originally posted by Sabre

How does this sound?  The only problem would be the lack of any 1939-40 carrier planes for the RN.  My thought here would be to use the TBM as a Swordfish replacement (no more out of place in this time period than the Ju88 model we have) and use Hurricane-I's for the carrier-based fighters.
Sabre
CT Team

Absolute nonsense to say the ju88a4 is out of place in the BOB setup! Ju88a-1 was in operation in 1939 september 26th according to my books. Ju88a5's were used in the battle of Britain, they had the the older engines engines(1000hp Jumos) but the ju88a4 with jumo 211j(1300hp) engines was in service(it just had problems with the engines). so im sure ju88a4s were around.and if you are refering to the later modified A4 then its a mute point as these were fitted with 13mm in nose fired from bombaimers position(not modeled in AH). The only engine upgrade after the ju88a4 was the JU88B with the BMW 801MA(1600hp) as far as i can see.Admittedly the torpedo should not be allowed(ju88A17, though still a modified ju88a4).The ju88a1 achieved 321.25mph with a 4409lb payload.our ju88a4 has a top speed of 292mph.so the engines didnt make an awful difference to speed, just the payload I think.
However,  the choice of TBM is wrong in my view,TBM has 2x50cals in the wings which gives it offensive capability the swordfish or Fulmars didnt have.the twin 50 cals in the rear turret are also deadly compared to a vickers mg in the swordfish and the quad 303s of the Fulmar.There was very little bombing carried out during the BOB compared to the amounts of anti-bomber and fighter sorties. This is what its known for after all.

Buzzbait has it correct I think.First see how it goes and then if it looks like its not getting the interest then change it.I cannot beleive we have waited for 2 dang years for these early planes and the CM team arent going to do a setup with it!

These are all the aircraft we need and the map to fight over which we have in almost working condition Some of the best fights i had were in the CT rolling set days when we were limited to similar performing aircraft:

RAF:
Hurricane I
Spitfire I
LW:
me109E4
bf110C4
ju88A4
 

Like it or not during the BOB the LW had the only cannons, all other machine guns of the time in the planes were 303in/7.9mm and we should get a taste of the difference before we introduce a 50cal armed plane.

[Seeker]

"There was very little bombing carried out during the BOB"

This is false, as you well know.

Bomber command was extremly active in this time period attacking the transportation build up in the French ports, with very heavy losses.

But what the hell. You guys will never be happy with a BoB set up. It's got Spits in it, hasn't it? If only you could remove those, you'd all be able to enjoy some history, no?

Have fun.

[eddiek]

I'd love to see the BoB reenacted in the CT.
Spit and Hurri I's, vs 109E4, 110C4, and Ju88.

Not sure how far developed the German radar system was during the BoB, but if that is one area the RAF led in, give the LW reduced dar range, or even a lack thereof if they did not have a system in place in France during the BoB.
Set the fuel multiplier to give the 109's a max of what?  15-20 minutes over Britain before they have to rtb?  I'll volunteer to help find the fuel multiplier we need.

[hazed-]

Originally posted by Seeker
"There was very little bombing carried out during the BOB"

This is false, as you well know.

Bomber command was extremly active in this time period attacking the transportation build up in the French ports, with very heavy losses.

But what the hell. You guys will never be happy with a BoB set up. It's got Spits in it, hasn't it? If only you could remove those, you'd all be able to enjoy some history, no?

Have fun.

as usual a moron takes half the sentance out of context.

READ WHAT I SAID SEEKER.

"There was very little bombing carried out during the BOB compared to the amounts of anti-bomber and fighter sorties."



Im british mate, Im fully aware we did use bombers.Im fully versed in just what we DID during the BOB.I grew up listening to my grandparents describing what it was really like.My grandfather made sure I understood just how close the RAF came to defeat and gave me many books on it and ive continued to read books on it for the last 20 some odd years.I suggest you get a hold of yourself before you start claiming some sort of conspiricy on LW flyers part to have a unfair advantage over the RAF side.grow up.All i DONT want to see is the CT getting flooded by planes that didnt play as major a role as the spit I or hurricane, like the tbm or some other replacement type.While the interest is on NEW planes in 1.09 lets bloody well use just those!! The ju88a4 is so near to the ju88a5(more commonly used in BOB) as to be a very acceptable aircraft.OR put another way a pretty FAIR alternative.

We dont NEED to model RAF bombers for a BOB set up.British bombers never as far as i know destroyed all of any LW bases fuel supplies or stopped any LW fighters having 100% fuel loads in fact i think they avoided fighter areas if at all possible.However many RAF fields were put out of action for days in single devastating raids where huge amounts of poundage were dropped on them.(read some books on these raids).