Author Topic: the BF110G2 (Read 6219 times)

Dashe · « **Reply #120 on:** March 19, 2002, 06:26:02 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Where do you ask for such things Dashe?

Wilbus, I think I would start by writing to the Dept. of Army, and the National Archives. First request access to all materials retained on the subject of the BF110 series aircraft, and a listing of any still classified documents.

Be aware that these requests may take a while to process and make determinations on, but if there is no response in 60 days request an explaination for the lack of response.

If neither of the above get's reasonable results, just e-mail me and I'll research the next steps, but my hunch is that there are no longer any classified documents (unless they simply haven't been looked at in the last 20 years), and that both agencies will be happy to do what they cn, especially the Archives.

Dashe
billrata@attbi.com

Wilbus · « **Reply #121 on:** March 19, 2002, 08:15:57 AM »

Ok, thanks, I am Swedish, how da hell do I get in touch with them?

Dashe · « **Reply #122 on:** March 19, 2002, 08:37:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Ok, thanks, I am Swedish, how da hell do I get in touch with them?

I would start online, US Government. That should have e-mail access or all the snail address's too. You should also look at the FOI act description.

Dashe

Wilbus · « **Reply #123 on:** March 19, 2002, 10:42:29 AM »

Thanks

Do you know if it costs alot?

Dashe · « **Reply #124 on:** March 19, 2002, 11:55:45 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Thanks

Do you know if it costs alot?

At most it should be copying charges, is the docs aren't available online or in a publication, like a Jane's Historical.

Dashe

Wilbus · « **Reply #125 on:** March 19, 2002, 12:50:05 PM »

Ohoh MAN! I'm gonna empty them for information! Didn't know this was possible!

*laughs evil*

Dashe · « **Reply #126 on:** March 19, 2002, 01:11:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wilbus
Ohoh MAN! I'm gonna empty them for information! Didn't know this was possible!

*laughs evil*

After the disclosures about secret files and using security to hide agency problems, Congress was forced to pass the FOI, making it mandatory that all government agencies must make public all information not currently of a sensative nature at the request of individuals. It even goes to the point that they have to release most information even if it requires "reasonable" redactions.

Teach them to lie about a war and our intelligence operations (solence is ok, lying get's you retirement).

Dashe

Vermillion · « **Reply #127 on:** March 19, 2002, 01:15:13 PM »

Ummm.... Its not that simple to get data from the US Gov.

Trust me I've went to ALOT more effort while looking for much more specific information. (the wider they have to search, the less effort they put into it)

Your best bet, is to contact the US Air Force Museum in Dayton OH (info is on their website along with instructions for data requests) and the National Air & Space Museum.

Be as specific as possible in your data requests.

Otherwise your just pissing into the wind.

Widewing · « **Reply #128 on:** March 19, 2002, 01:42:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion
Ummm.... Its not that simple to get data from the US Gov.

Trust me I've went to ALOT more effort while looking for much more specific information. (the wider they have to search, the less effort they put into it)

Your best bet, is to contact the US Air Force Museum in Dayton OH (info is on their website along with instructions for data requests) and the National Air & Space Museum.

Be as specific as possible in your data requests.

Otherwise your just pissing into the wind.

For the best results, contact the:

Air Force Historical Research Agency
Phone: (334) 953-2395
E-mail: AFHRANEWS@maxwell.af.mil
600 Chennault Circle, Bldg 1405
Maxwell AFB, AL 36112-6424

My regards,

Widewing

Dashe · « **Reply #129 on:** March 19, 2002, 01:56:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing

For the best results, contact the:

Air Force Historical Research Agency
Phone: (334) 953-2395
E-mail: AFHRANEWS@maxwell.af.mil
600 Chennault Circle, Bldg 1405
Maxwell AFB, AL 36112-6424

My regards,

Widewing

Fact is, there are times when the government is surprisingly quick at getting documents out, if they have been called for in the last 20 years. lol Just never know when or why. The alternatives may have the detail Wilbus wants, but if they don't I am simply giving him a starting point.

Dashe

hazed- · « **Reply #130 on:** March 19, 2002, 04:15:00 PM »

ok ive done some tests on the 110g2 and the p38 off line taking off of a bas at 500ft altitude

ALL CLIMB SPEEDS AT 160 mph:
ALL FUEL 100% full ammo loadouts
ALL sustained climb rates (ignored fluctuating initial rates)

110g2 : P38L

up to 10k

2600ft/min : 3100ft/min

with wep;

2750ft/min : 3500ft/min

from 10k up to 20k non wep;

10k... 2200ft/min : 3000ft/min
12k... 2100ft/min : 2800ft/min
13.5k... 2000ft/min : 2800ft/min
15k... 1900ft/min : 2750ft/min
16k... 1800ft/min : 2700ft/min
17k... 1750ft/min : 2700ft/min
18k... 1700ft/min : 2650ft/min
19k... 1600ft/min : 2600ft/min
20k... 1500ft/min : 2550ft/min

then adding wep at 20k;

1600ft/min : 2650ft/min

then leveling out at 21k and accelerating non wep;

365-370 mph : 390mph

time taken to get to that speed;

@8-9 minutes : @ 2-3 minutes

then at top speed adding wep;

@1 minute... 373mph : 400mph
@2 minutes... 375mph : 401-402mph
@3 minutes... 375mph : 402mph

both remain steady at this speed from then on.

then just for kicks i added to the;

110G2 2x500kg bombs+4 rockets : P38L 2x1000lb bombs+10 rockets

and again climbed to 10k

non wep;

1-5k... 1850-1900ft/min : 2300ft/min
5k... 1800ft/min : 2250ft/min
10k... 1600ft/min : 2200ft/min

also a final test roll time at 350mph

7 seconds : 5 seconds

real uber the 110 eh?
now if someone could come up with data from the real planes i could compare it but as it stands i dont see anything great about the g2 performance.If anything it loses climb(or degrades) a lot faster than the twin engined p38.but with superchargers etc who knows it could be correct.

AMMO

just as ive been blasted in the past by many allied types if you want to question performance you have to provide testing in AH or data from real life or you should be told like me that you have no business posting things like this.
However my personal opinion is that your post is justified if you 'feel' its behaving rediculously or unusually and would like others to help you see whats right or wrong with their so called 'data charts'

.After all its exactly what i was asking in my posts only im LW so that immediately made me a whiner thanks to Rude,SW and his mates

Ive just done these tests but for the life of me I dont know what or how these will help.All i see from my tests is that the p38 is by far the better climber, the faster accelerating,the better bomb carrier(as in less performance hit with full loadout) and seems to have the better handling. So why complain about the G2 being an uber ride??

Soviet · « **Reply #131 on:** March 19, 2002, 06:06:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hazed-
ok ive done some tests on the 110g2 and the p38 off line taking off of a bas at 500ft altitude

ALL CLIMB SPEEDS AT 160 mph:
ALL FUEL 100% full ammo loadouts
ALL sustained climb rates (ignored fluctuating initial rates)

110g2 : P38L

up to 10k

2600ft/min : 3100ft/min

with wep;

2750ft/min : 3500ft/min

from 10k up to 20k non wep;

10k... 2200ft/min : 3000ft/min
12k... 2100ft/min : 2800ft/min
13.5k... 2000ft/min : 2800ft/min
15k... 1900ft/min : 2750ft/min
16k... 1800ft/min : 2700ft/min
17k... 1750ft/min : 2700ft/min
18k... 1700ft/min : 2650ft/min
19k... 1600ft/min : 2600ft/min
20k... 1500ft/min : 2550ft/min

then adding wep at 20k;

1600ft/min : 2650ft/min

then leveling out at 21k and accelerating non wep;

365-370 mph : 390mph

time taken to get to that speed;

@8-9 minutes : @ 2-3 minutes

then at top speed adding wep;

@1 minute... 373mph : 400mph
@2 minutes... 375mph : 401-402mph
@3 minutes... 375mph : 402mph

both remain steady at this speed from then on.

then just for kicks i added to the;

110G2 2x500kg bombs+4 rockets : P38L 2x1000lb bombs+10 rockets

and again climbed to 10k

non wep;

1-5k... 1850-1900ft/min : 2300ft/min
5k... 1800ft/min : 2250ft/min
10k... 1600ft/min : 2200ft/min

also a final test roll time at 350mph

7 seconds : 5 seconds

real uber the 110 eh?
now if someone could come up with data from the real planes i could compare it but as it stands i dont see anything great about the g2 performance.If anything it loses climb(or degrades) a lot faster than the twin engined p38.but with superchargers etc who knows it could be correct.

AMMO

just as ive been blasted in the past by many allied types if you want to question performance you have to provide testing in AH or data from real life or you should be told like me that you have no business posting things like this.
However my personal opinion is that your post is justified if you 'feel' its behaving rediculously or unusually and would like others to help you see whats right or wrong with their so called 'data charts' .After all its exactly what i was asking in my posts only im LW so that immediately made me a whiner thanks to Rude,SW and his mates

Ive just done these tests but for the life of me I dont know what or how these will help.All i see from my tests is that the p38 is by far the better climber, the faster accelerating,the better bomb carrier(as in less performance hit with full loadout) and seems to have the better handling. So why complain about the G2 being an uber ride??

Nice Data

This proves that our Bf-110G2 isn't uber, i almost started rolling on the floor when i heard "Uber Bf110" originally

Karnak · « **Reply #132 on:** March 19, 2002, 06:55:18 PM »

Soviet,

Keep in mind that when the Mosquito VI was introduced people, including the P-38 fans, were saying that it was too powerful and would need to be perked if it weren't found to be overmodeled and nerfed.

Well, it wasn't found to be over modeled, it wasn't nerfed and it hardly needed to be perked.

I think the Bf110G-2 will see the same pattern.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #133 on:** March 19, 2002, 07:10:53 PM »

LOL Hazed, great blast in the face of the whine-cheer-stapo group Tm

You should add to your tests some one with the .target command noticing the 1.3k yards hits with the P38 (this thing outclimbs a 190A8+DT even loeaded with maximum ordenance) ...

Congrats in your tests.

After having some flights with 110G, I, sincerely, cant see the point of these whines. It is a mediocre fighter, excelent for HOs and a last chance defense with the tail peashooter, but nothing special compared with almost anything else.

All the USA iron will outrun, outaccelerate and outclimb it (probably also the F4U1A). All the RAF iron will outclimb and outturn it, the Typh will out-anything it. G2 is nothing but a good armed LW plane with a decent turning compared with late war planes.

Karnak · « **Reply #134 on:** March 19, 2002, 07:28:03 PM »

MANDOBLE,

I'd be very surprised if the Mosquito will either out turn it or out climb it.

Out run it, yes. I've already used that to escape from several Bf110G-2's in the Mossie.