Author Topic: HiTech: Gameplay question re. resupply (Read 218 times)

Sabre · « **on:** March 14, 2002, 08:51:18 AM »

I may be reading too much into the symantics of the Help pages regarding player resupply, so help me understand this one, very important point, please. The help files state the following under the "Supply Drops" section:

Quote

The C-47, LVT-2, and M-3 have the capability to drop supplies on a field to repair the field or shorten the downtime. These object supplies will repair all resupplyable objects in a one mile radius from the point where the supplies land. The supplies are selected as a loadout option in the hangar, and .25 perk points are awarded to the player who dropped the supplies for every object that's affected by the resupply.

Question:Can players still drop supplies on strategic targets (cities/HQ/factories) to shorten the downtime, or does player resupply only affect field objects and field-town objects?

I'm hoping the answer is that player resupply of strat targets is gone, or will be once the new "strat-zone" terrains are implemented. My reason for this stand goes to the heart of the difference between tactical attack and strategic attacks. Strategic attacks by their nature do not have an immediate impact, and with the exception of the HQ they don't in AH either. Rather they affect what will happen at some point in the future. In AH, that affect is to increase rebuild times at the tactical front. Thus, a successful attack on a strat target in AH only has an impact if the side that performed it also engages in tactical attacks. So being able to speed up the rebuilding of strat targets by dropping a couple loads of supplies will largely negate the importance of strategic attack, just as it did when 1.08 was released.

At the very least, I strongly urge you to do away with player resupply of the cities. They are the linchpins of the whole system, and should be worth defending. Even if other strat targets can be player-resupplied, if the city is not it at least forces some kind of action on the enemy as a result of hitting the city hard. An offensive then would begin with a massive raid on the enemy city to halt rail resupply, then the systematic pummeling of AAA and ammo factories in that strat zone. Even if your country's on the defensive, this is still a viable way to slow the enemy advance. The difference is the target priorities. Killing the city and then hitting enemy refineries and training facilities could then be followed up with targeted attacks on front line fuel tanks and field barracks.

Having said all that, I love the other changes to the logistics system. Even if players can rebuild strat targets via supply drops, I believe it will be superior to 1.08.

Sabre · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2002, 01:16:42 PM »

, cause I still want to know:).

hitech · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2002, 01:52:52 PM »

Right now you can resuply factorys & hq.
Im not convinced we wan't to totaly elimite this.

Right now if you hit the city and hq its 2 hours of no radar. It would take 4 goons to resuply the hq, and 6 goons to resuply the factorys.

What im considering is adjusting the supply size and down time for hq possibly removing or adjust the other factorys from being supplied.

Don't forget the ability to do supply drops can also be destroyed.

When we get to the multiple zones things will change again, once you have multiple zones shutting down one zone for a country is not as catostofic. Still might have one home zone that can be supplied.

Just had a new thought as im typing this, what if at a reset each country only started with 1 zone?

Btw to help everyone invision how big a 512x512 map is, picture all 4 arena maps we have now joined together, i.e. one in each coner.

jpeg · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2002, 11:27:44 PM »

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Originally posted by hitech
Right now you can resuply factorys & hq.
Im not convinced we wan't to totaly elimite this.

Btw to help everyone invision how big a 512x512 map is, picture all 4 arena maps we have now joined together, i.e. one in each coner.

I hope you don't eliminate it and about the map
...
yikes!
That will be too big (IMO of course)

Sabre · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2002, 09:01:01 AM »

Thanks for the response, HiTech. I'm still unclear on several points, however.

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Right now you can resuply factorys & hq.
Im not convinced we wan't to totaly elimite this.

When you say you can still resupply "factorys," to you mean the radar factories, or the city? Also, when you say that "the ability to do supply drops can also be destroyed," what are you refering too? Are you talking about killing bomber hangers at nearby fields to prevent spawning, or does killing field supply sources (fuel tanks, ammo bunkers, barracks) prevent a C-47/M-3 from being able to resupply that type of factory?

I figured there'd be changes to player resupply of strat targets once the new "zoned" terrains come out. I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to eliminate it under the current maps. I just wanted to undertand how this has changed up to this point. The idea of having a capital province or zone where resupply of factories is still allowed is a nice compromise. I like it. This would give the defenders a "citadel" to fall back on that would be much tougher to take than the outlying zones.

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Just had a new thought as im typing this, what if at a reset each country only started with 1 zone?

If I understand what you're proposing here, i.e. leaving the remaining zones neutral and up for grabs at the reset, it worth looking at. My only suggestions is that the non-neutral zones for all three countries be touching at some point. Otherwise I could see the furballists being pretty upset that they'd be left with a lull in the action just following the reset.

hitech · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2002, 12:16:09 PM »

Sabre killing a baracks at a field removes the ablity to load drunks & supplies from that field.

Sabre term definitions

City: The single spot per country with lots of builds
HQ: The one building per country that destroys dar bar.
Factroys:types are ammo/training/radar/aaa/fuel
These complexs are not located at the fields.
Some complexes have mixed types at them for instance
near the HQ there are also some radar factorys.

Fields:No definition needed
Towns:Where the map room is lockated next to airfields.

Citys can not be supplied now. Down time 3 hours.
Btw Sabre This table explaines all the setup and interaction

http://www.hitechcreations.com/map.html#targets

Tac · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2002, 01:45:31 PM »

"Just had a new thought as im typing this, what if at a reset each country only started with 1 zone?"

I LIKE it HT!

Hey, will ye end up doing the 1-strat target controlling X sector's assets?

Going on a freelance here, if there was one BIIIIG city (covering 1 whole sector) that contained the factories inside it, controlling (aka, resupplying and holding ownership of) the fields 9 sectors around it (as in city is in keypad #5 , controlling fields around it), then the bombing of said city would reduce the resupply going to the fields (since each city would only supply its own fields), destroying the city's buildings (not factories) would increase the factory down-time.

You could still resupply that city with goons from OTHER cities (maybe enable spawning of goons inside the city?).

Heck, ye could even put 1 factory for every nationality.. blast the US fact. , no more US rides. Blast the vehicle factory, no more vehicles. (for the fields controlled by said city).

Fields around the city can be "neutralized" by using the current "10 troops in map room". Field would become the property of the conquerors, but it wont be resupplied by the AI, it would instead rely on players resupplying it.

Resupply/down times: If it could be done so that there is no set-in-stone down time, but instead a "X resupply crates to rebuild" supply system, then the destruction of strat target/interception of resupply convoys would take paramount importance. Maybe only give the Acks a set in stone rebuild time, but the rest, if its down, its down till resuppply comes in.

Say, in order to rebuild, (per)

VH=2 crates
FH=3 crates
BH=2 crates
Fuel/ammo/barracks=1 crate

If the supply convoys are made large, say, 20 trucks a time... and goons/m3's carry 5 crates each, I think this could work nicely.

Capturing a city could be accomplished by dropping 50 troops in the city's map room. Since the city covers 1 whole sector, this would make for some incredible ground battles, as every field/vbase controlled by the city can send vehicles to the city to attack/defend.

Ermm.. im blabbing again. feel free to tear this to pieces

Sabre · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2002, 05:00:50 PM »

Thanks, HiTech. That clears it up nicely. Please excuse the density of my skull:). I didn't realize killing the Barracks kills resupply too. Sounds great. I was hoping this was how it was set up now, with city buildings un-resupply-able. Until we get the strat-zone map in place, I think this it a great compromise to gameplay. Hitting the city makes it so the defenders have to run supplies to the factories or risk a domino-like collapse of their logistics system. Looking forward to seeing how things work with the larger terrains, too. Keep up the great job!

sourkraut · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2002, 11:37:27 AM »

It appears that the table
http://www.hitechcreations.com/map.html#targets requires updates based on HTs comments above:

Barracks (Effect) - "Reduces troop loadout to zero" should be "Reduces troop and cargo loadout to zero"

City building (Can be resupplied) - "Yes *" should be "No"

Is this right?

Soda · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2002, 12:39:58 PM »

Another Supply question, is it possible to resupply Hangers in any way? I was under the understanding that it was impossible with the current strat model to resupply a hanger either manually through an M3 or automatically through a supply convoy. It was like the old system before supply, just a running 15 minute counter.

I ask because in an attack a couple of nights ago I could swear, along with some others, that some fighter hangers didn't stay down for anywhere near 15 minutes, more like 5-7. I didn't see any resupply happen but it may have since I wasn't that close and watching for it.

Am I correct, did a bunch of us mis-judge the time, or is there a way to resupply hangers (or maybe a bug).

-Soda

Sabre · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2002, 12:54:37 PM »

According to the Help file section on changes due to 1.09, it says hanger downtime is a flat 15 minutes, with no resupply ability.

MachNix · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2002, 03:25:22 PM »

Some suggestions from someone new:

1. Provide real-time feedback on the results of the re-supply. You get a message if you destroy an object. How about a message that you repaired an object? Currently, the only feedback you get is to check your perk points in the hanger and check the status of the facility in the map room.

2. Add the ability to get supplies at the re-arm pads - if supplies are available. The re-arm pads will reload fuel on your C-47 but the ordnance count remains at zero. (Bug?)

3. Add some mannable guns (37mm and 88mm) at cities for defense if the ability to re-supply is removed.

Thanks.

SKurj · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2002, 05:37:17 PM »

Mach...

You don't actually supply anything... you just reduce the rebuild time.

SKurj

Seagoon · « **Reply #13 on:** April 19, 2002, 12:11:40 PM »

MachNix's last point is especially relevant. With the increasing value of strat targets, especially with the big maps. There should be at least a couple of player mannable acks at each strategic target. The idea that the HQ, for instance, does have a single player ack just seems wrong for such a critical locale.

Adding land based player mannable big flaks, like the 88 Mach mentioned is also something I'd like to see.

BTW - thanks for the explanation of the strat system. Looking forward to biggie sized maps.

- Seagoon