Panzer vs Federal Express (supply convoys)

[CavemanJ]

Wasn't in much of a mood to fly last night so I took a panzer and went hunt trucks.  While looking for trucks to kill I managed to kill a few P51s, couple of 109s and 190s, and even force fed a 75mm AP to a low alt B26 that couldna hit me with his bombs

Found a road, drove away from the town it led to, found a nice long straight I could see a good ways down and parked, right in the middle of the road.  While waiting on the convoy to show up a 190 decided to give me a free kill with a kamikaze attack, slamming into the ground right next to me and taking out my pintle gun and main turret in the process.

So I sit and wait, figuring I'll just see what happens when the trucks come along and I man the hull mg.  Few minutes later here come the trucks and I start shooting the lead truck.  Spent about half the ammo for the hull MG before the truck got to me.  When the truck got to me it went through my tank, making it rock a couple of times before exploding it and sending me back to the tower.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?  A truck can drive through a panzer?  Must come from the same place as the panzer killing trees.  What's with a supply truck (duece and a half?) driving through a panzer and blowing it up?  I was hoping, at best, that the trucks would stop with me in the way.  Never even thought that I'd die due to being rammed by a truck.


Get a new tank, drive back out to the road, park off to the side.  Here come the trucks, jump to the main gun, see I only have AP loaded but thing "hey, they're on trucks, right?" and proceed to fire.  Good hit, right in the middle of the front grill, truck keeps rolling on.  Fire another shot that hits just above the trucks right front tire and it keeps rolling on.  Score a 3rd hit on the cargo area as the truck gets to my position and it keeps rolling.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!?  These are TRUCKS!  A 75mm AP through the front should stop that truck that cold!

Then a 110 (I think G2) comes along, makes ONE strafing pass on my panzer, and sends me back to the tower.


Get a new tank, this time with HE rounds, and drive back out to the road.  Here comes the convoy.  Jump to the main gun, select HE, lay a bead on the lead truck, fire.... BOOM! no more truck.  Reload, target, ready, FIRE....  BOOM! no more truck.  Get off a 3rd shot as the convoy nears my position, then a 4th after rotating the turret and manage to catch the last one in the line as it disappears over a hill.  While waiting on the next convoy the B26 came along, dropped a bomb and knocked off a track, reattacked and missed completely, came back on a couple of strafing passes and on his second strafing pass ate a 75mm AP round


Now, basically, it seems that to interdict base supply convoys with panzers you need a force of at least 3 panzers loaded with HE shells and don't park on the road.  Seems a little strange for a tank to be scared of trucks though...

[eddiek]

...that those same trucks pull the steepest grades without any loss of speed!
M8 will haul butt on level ground, but damn, even on the "roads" they slow to a crawl with even the slightest uphill slope.
These are CARGO trucks, right, HT?  They ought to be subject to the same stuff we are, struggling up hills, etc.  I did nearly the same thing Cavey did, only in an M8, got in behind a convoy and gave chase.  Hung with them for a while, then we started uphill and they left me in the dust when I went from 55mph to 15 in a matter of seconds.
Just a thought, HT, but how about it?  If an M3 or M8 will bog down heading up a hill, even on a "paved" road, shouldn't the cargo trucks do it too?

[hitech]

Eddick, I don't disagree, but somthing has to give. Enorder for the supply stystem to work for game play, trucks must arive every 10 mins at a field,factory or hq.

If you have ever played with the terrain editor you will find out that setting up all the supply routes is very time consuming.

By making trucks slow you would also put the burreden on  the terrain desiner to make sure that when trucks go uphill , he has the road the right length for trucks to still arive every 10 mins.


The other solution that hoses things is multiple convoys in route at once. This would create a problem with the time between hitting factorys and there effect on the fields, i.e. no way to know after hitting a factory how long before none of the convoys had supplies on them.

[eddiek]

........I really wasn't thinking about the gameplay issue.
How about instead of "constant speed" convoys, they accelerated downhill like the player controllable stuff?
The resupply period is what throws a kink in it all, right?

[Tac]

HT, why not make the player manned vehicles go at half of their max speed when the inclination is more than 30 degrees or so?

Its sometimes frustrating to GV due to very steep unclimbable hills, or to spend nearly half an hour just getting over a hill so that some n1k that just upped sends you back to the tower.

Could you give lots of smoke rounds to the M8 too please? Would give them a niche as excellent flankers. Smoke would "cover" their movements.. since there is no cover to speak of in the game right now.

On another note, could airplanes be allowed to be "repaired" if they get "resupplied" by m3/goon? Just like gv's but this resupply would repair the damage. Sort of like a repair truck

[CavemanJ]

Yeah eddie, it's the timing of the resupply convoys that's the reason they don't lose speed going up the hills.

I don't have too much of a problem with that, save if you're by yourself in your panzer you aren't going to get but 3 or 4 trucks in the time you can lay the sight on them.  It's pretty easy to park along the road and just wait on the convoy to come.

HT what kinda headaches would it cause to change it to ~30mph speed for the trucks and a 15minute spawn time?  They travel ~10miles now right?  at 30mph that's ~12minutes on the spawn, giving ~3min between delivery and respawn.  The 30mph would also give the treadhead types a little longer to wreak havoc and then the trucks not losing speed going up hill isn't nearly as big an issue =)

[hitech]

So cavemanj you wan't one person to have the ability to shut down field supply?

[Tac]

Well HT, a single plane with 2 1k bombs and rockets can already do that. Or the 110G2 with its mondo cannon load.

And if someone does have the patience to drive up the road to intercept resupply, and far enough to not be picked up by jabos, I believe that that tank should be able to blow the entire convoy. Ive been in my m8 with HE ammo and tried to stop a truck convoy that was nearing the town of a field we were capturing.. they went by so fast I could barely range them. convoy went into town almost complete. You literally have to park the tank ON the road and shoot them as they come in.. but reload times vs. truck speed means the truck may ram you off the road lol.

[hitech]

Difference is tac, a vehicle can just sit there for the next one.

[CavemanJ]

Originally posted by hitech
So cavemanj you wan't one person to have the ability to shut down field supply?

As Tac points out the speed of the trucks is a real headache for aiming.  I was parked just far enough off the road to let the trucks pass me w/o hitting me and I had fired a couple of shots for range before the convoy arrived so I had a reference point for when to start firing the 75.  From ~2800yds I got 3 trucks and started swinging the turret to shoot as they left and barely got to the 4th.

Now, about a single person shutting down field supply...

Are the convoys arriving required to keep the field at max supplies?  Or do they just decrease the rebuild time of damaged supplies at the base?

If the convoys are not required to keep max supplies at an undamaged field where's the problem?  If a base is hotly contested the life expectancy for a panzer is pretty short.  

In my sorties posted in the begining of this thread all were made at a base that heavily defended.  I was lucky to see a convoy before I was found and bombed into oblivion.  And the one convoy I was able to kill trucks in I only got 4 (and the 4th was more luck than skill) as was promptly dispatched on a couple of minutes later.  In all sorties I drove far enough down the road to see the depot where the convoy spawned and never sat in position to shoot a convoy for more than 5-10minutes w/o getting bombed into oblivion.

I understand the need for balance in the gameplay, but right now for panzer vs truck the pendelum is too far away from fun.  Especially since the 75mm HE is the only 1shot kill weapon a panzer has against the convoys.

::shrug:: was just askin

[Tac]

Originally posted by hitech
Difference is tac, a vehicle can just sit there for the next one.

For 10+ minutes? With every cannon and 50 cal plane making strafing runs on you?

Even if you manage to drive up the road far enough to not be seen, what would it accomplish? If the field is not under attack, killing the convoy does nothing. If the field is under attack theres a very high chance of your tank being spotted, a high chance of said convoy being strafed by attacking planes, and if it does get through, anything in town that comes up will quickly be shot to pieces (who cares if fuel or ammo come back up in field, the only thing that matter is the town and keeping the vh down & their planes vulched).

Now, if the field degraded by not receiving supplies, that'd be a different matter imo.

[Mickey1992]

Originally posted by hitech
So cavemanj you wan't one person to have the ability to shut down field supply?

But it won't really shut it down, will it?  It will just take the maximum rebuild time (2 hours?) for the field target to rebuild.

[8ball]

You keep talking about one person parking a Panzer outside a base and killing convoys.  The reason for the Strategy system was to make team-play a more integral part of the game.  If you want to 'park' and kill convoys just get someone to come with you in an Ostwind or M16.  You could even get multiple Panzers to do the shooting; that would make it much more likely for you to stop the convoy.

[Midnight]

I don't understand why the timing issue of 10 minutes has to be taken into consideration for the resupply.

If a convoy leaves the depot every 10 minutes, and each convoy travels the same route at the same average speed (read, they slow down when climbing hills, accelerate when going down grade) then 1 convoy will arrive at the field every 10 minutes, regardless of distance to travel.

Granted, if it is a 1/2 hour drive, the first trucks (right after reset) won't make it for that 1/2 hour, but after that, it is a constant stream of trucks.

Besides, it would be very cool to be able to take an M8 or M16 and actually escort the truck convoys as they drive. Right now, that is an impossibility.

[CavemanJ]

Midnight the big deal about the 10minutes has to do with the logistics of supplies.  With only one convoy on the road at a time you know when the base stops getting supplied with a certain item if that item's factory is knocked out.  With multiple convoys on the road you can't be sure which convoy is the last to carry that item.  It's a game play thing, like HT wrote above.

If they slow down on the grades the roads have to be made shorter to hit the delivery time, even more time consuming in making the maps.


HT take a panzer, drive to a contested field, and ambush the convoy.  You'll see what I mean about the life expectancy of a panzer in a hot combat zone