Cougar HOTAS

[Minotaur]

Does the cougar use optical or resistive devices?

[Revvin]

They are using pots

[Samm]

Ed the crime donkey says don't do pots, they cause spikes even when clean .

[BUG_EAF322]

Just bought me that TM afterburner2 it's complete hotas for 60 euro.
It's simple and i like that

only wish it had dual throttle

[Zeb]

Yes they are using pots, very high quality ones.  I quote from an interview with TM explaining the reasons.

When I went to spend time with TM out in Montreal, they were looking at the three options available, namely pots, magnetic and optical devices. Many people assume that optical devices are the way to go. Apart from the fact that they're expensive, the main argument against using them, is that they have very poor resolution for use in a joystick. The ideal resolution for a pot is greater than your screen resolution. So if you had a cursor that is one pixel on your screen and you were using it as an aiming reticule in some space sim, you'd love to be able to move it up one pixel at a time. So if you are looking at a 1280 x 1024 screen, that's what you want as the resolution from your pots. Of course that's not what you get from today's controllers.

If you look at the digital TM controllers, the values from them lie in the range 0 - 255 which is 256 discrete values. With the Cougar it's about 4-5 times better than that, so it's well over 1000. (At this point James moved the stick a little and the cursor on the screen moved in tiny increments). See, much much better. So we weren't impressed with optical solutions with their poor resolution. Everyone liked the response from good quality pots, and the decision was made to go with those.

[GtoRA2]

For me, it's the all metal construction and the springs, I tend to over control with light springs.

Also I have owned CH products and liked them, but they are way to light in the springs for me.

Thrustmaster is a good company I bought my F22 from them 5 years ago, and it still works, although I cant get it to programme right, I called them a year after I bought it cause it was spiking and they sent out new pots just like that.

Great customer service, in my case.

[Zeb]

Originally posted by NHFoxtro
Let me ask a dumb question. What could a stick costing $270 do for your game that a stick costing $60 cant? Don't say extra buttons. I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know.

Main reason for me is that it will be the most programmable joystick I have come across.  It's is also built to last and not fall apart in a short time.  It is not that expensive compared to my CH gear that will be consigned to the bin probably.  In fact the cost is about the same as my CH gear was.

Why pay that much?  Because I can
Flying has always been a hobby.  However I cannot afford the real thing anymore so flight sims are the next best thing for me.  

You think $270 is expensive.  It is £249 here in the UK, virtually no matter where you buy it.  That equals $355 at todays exchange rates.  And the Cougar is being sourced in Europe I am led to believe.

[Raubvogel]

For $270 it better shoot down planes for me.

I'll stick with my 3 year old $60 MS Pre Pro that has never let me down.

[Zeb]

Originally posted by GtoRA2

Also I have owned CH products and liked them, but they are way to light in the springs for me.

Thrustmaster is a good company I bought my F22 from them 5 years ago, and it still works, although I cant get it to programme right, I called them a year after I bought it cause it was spiking and they sent out new pots just like that.

Great customer service, in my case.

Till now I have stuck by CH gear.  Flossy and myself both have the same setup.  However since I cannot easily reprogram the Pro Throttle/Fighterstick anymore as I am using Windows XP I have to change.  I know CH have brought out a USB version of their stuff,  but I still think they should support people who still have their other "expensive" sticks.  Speedkeys always was crap anyway. It's still in beta!

I did try TM sticks a number of years ago.  The throttle was a WCS mk2 I seem to remember. Not sure what the stick was, but I was not very happy about the quality of construction.  I think things have come on a long way since those days.  I have downloaded the programming manuals for the Cougar and it is certainly very flexible.

[Hristo]

The toejam uses pots.

Resolution what ? When the pot wears, all the resolution goes down the toilet.

Perhaps they should've put down few optical mice and put the parts into the Cougar, if they don't have the know-how.

[MOTJD]

I cannot disagree that paying more for quality is the way to go, but has anyone tried the Cougar yet? You arent going to tell me that for the first time in your life you are going to believe a sales ad? I hope you dont buy your clothes or shoes just cause Some Jock on TV says they are the way to go.. heh heh. I will wait a year and listen to all those people whine cause they spent 270 on a stick that isnt really any better than their old one cept its alot heavier, and rusts. Anyways by that time the price will have dropped  to about 150. then ill buy one.

[Samm]

I'm guessing its going to have software to run it, so you know what that means.
 As for programability, with AH's kick butt stick mapping and axis selection, why do you need it ?

I bought a MS pre pro years ago, since then I've bought many sticks, saitek, tm, gravis, etc. But you know what I've been using since 1.02, my MS stick. Why ?, because it NEVER spikes, no software, no windows setup, just plug it in, never needs calibrated. Nothing has ever worn out on it, and if my regular throttle or pedals fail me, the stick has a throttle and rudder on it .

[Revvin]

Hristo> You've already whined about this on SimHQ, you took it to Cougar World and were duely answered by the Cougar team, the answers were simple, optical devices don't give the same resolution and magnetic sensors would make the Cougar too expensive due to the ammount needed for the stick (ie not just X & Y axis) The new pots are sealed and the team have used the electronics in old converted F22 sticks for over a year.

Samm> Yes you can use the software that comes with the stick and its easy to use but the stick is also DirectX compatible so you can map buttons directly in any of your sims using the sims own joystick mapper. Of course if you require something a little more complicated than a keypress you'll need to use the software as you would with any other stick.

MOTJD> As a previous owner of TM sticks ( a PFCS, WCSII, F16FLCS and TQS) I'm more than happy to place my pre-order for a Cougar, the quality of TM for me has been unmatched by any other joystick manufacturer. I doubt the Cougar's price will drop so dramatically as you say, its not like any other stick, its expensive yes but its not built like any other stick.

[Samm]

Speaking for myself, no joystick is worth a days wages . Secondly I've never had a TM joystick that didn't crap out or that I didn't take back for a refund, so you see why I have little confidence in this one . $270  for a stick throttle combo ! Thats just insulting, and even if I did need it I would refuse to pay that price as a matter of principal .

 My advice to anyone considering purchasing this is to shop around first and try out as many sticks as you can before paying that ridiculous price . And if you do buy it make sure you get an unconditional money back guarentee, or order through a merchant like compusa so that if you don't like it for any reason you can take it back withing 30 days for a full refund .

Just watching my fellow flightsimers sixes, looks like someone is trying to make suckers out of us .

[Doberman]

Chips & Bits baby!  Just can' t wait.

I'll address a few points brought up.

First off, as to believing their ads.  I'm not doing that as much as betting on their past history of producing high-end flight simulation gear.  And I'm not talking about the TM branded Guillermot crap that many of you think of when you hear "Thrustmaster."  I'm harking back to the days of the F-16 FLCS and the WCS and the TQS.  Original TM gear was and is the best stuff ever produced for our hobby.  CH, Saitek, MS ... All pretenders.  Every word so far has said that the new stuff will be going back in that direction.      

Secondly, someone asked why you'd even need all that programming with AH's built in stuff.  Well, to start, some of us ocassionally play something other than AH.  Not all games have the good built in stick mapping that AH does.  And even AH's is limited, IMO.  The aftermarket stuff (Old TM, the CH program I'm using now, and certainly the new TM) allows for key combinations that just aren't possible with the AH built in mapping.  Macros in particular.  And I much prefer to use a [shift] type key on  the controllers to change the way my buttons operate.  I hated using stick sets for the short time I tried to fly with them.  That way I don't have to rely on memory or visual cues to know if my controls are in landing/fighting/bombing mod.

Thirdly, the feel.  Anyone who's ever played with high quality controls will never be satisfied with anything else.  I am counting the days until I can relegate my CH stuff to my secondary gaming system and get back to using TM stuff.  Heavier springs, solid bases and metal construction are a god-send.  

As for pots ... I've never had any trouble with them.  Had a failure with another part of my old TM stuff (which I've never gotten around to fixing), but the pots always worked just fine.  They're noramlly replaceable and easy to clean if they did start giving me trouble anyways.

Peopl ask why anyone would want or need something so expensive/complicated/etc.  Comfort & convenience.  You could get around on a horse, but you'd rather drive a car to work right?

D