tests between 110g2/P38L/P47d30 (repeated ammos post)

[hazed-]

ok ive done some tests on the 110g2 and the p38 off line taking off of a base at 500ft altitude

ALL CLIMB SPEEDS AT 160 mph:
ALL FUEL 100% full ammo loadouts
ALL sustained climb rates (ignored fluctuating initial rates)

110g2 : P38L : P47D30 : 190A8(4xMg151/20)

up to 10k

2600ft/min : 3100ft/min : 2250-2300ft/min : 2650ft/min

with wep;

2750ft/min : 3500ft/min : 3000ft/min : 3100ft/min

(notice the difference in added climb)

from 10k up to 20k non wep;

10k... 2200ft/min : 3000ft/min : 2250ft/min : 2050ft/min
12k... 2100ft/min : 2800ft/min : 2250ft/min : 2000ft/min
13.5k... 2000ft/min : 2800ft/min : 2200ft/min : 1975ft/min
15k... 1900ft/min : 2750ft/min : 2200ft/min : 1950ft/min
16k... 1800ft/min : 2700ft/min : 2150ft/min : 1900ft/min
17k... 1750ft/min : 2700ft/min : 2100ft/min : 1850ft/min
18k... 1700ft/min : 2650ft/min : 2050ft/min : 1800ft/min
19k... 1600ft/min : 2600ft/min : 2000ft/min : 1750ft/min
20k... 1500ft/min : 2550ft/min : 2000ft/min : 1600ft/min

(notice the degredation in performance on the g2 compared to P38)

then adding wep at 20k;

1600ft/min : 2650ft/min : 2500ft/min : 2000ft/min

(both gain only 100ft/min with wep engaged [p47 500ft/min] 190a8 400ft/min)

then leveling out at 21k and accelerating non wep from @160mph;

top speed... 365-370 mph(hard to read gauge accurately) : 390mph : 380mph : 375mph

time taken to get to that speed;

@8-9 minutes : @ 2-3 minutes : @4 minutes : @4 minutes

(notice the huge difference in acceleration)

then at top speed adding wep;

@1 minute... 373mph : 400mph : 395mph : 385mph
@2 minutes... 375mph : 401-402mph : 400mph : 395mph
@3 minutes... 375mph : 402mph : 401mph : 395mph

(increase in speed on g2 is @5-10mph, P38 @12mph,P47 @21mph 190A8 @20mph)

both(all) remain steady at this speed from then on.

then just for kicks i added to the;

110G2 2x500kg bombs+4 rockets : P38L 2x1000lb bombs+10 rockets : P47d30 2x1000lb 1x500lb+ 10 rockets : 109a8 1x500kg bombs+2 rockets

and again climbed to 10k

non wep;

1-5k... 1850-1900ft/min : 2300ft/min : 1250ft/min : 1950ft/min
5k... 1800ft/min : 2250ft/min : 1250ft/min : 1750ft/min
10k... 1600ft/min : 2200ft/min : 1200ft/min : 1400ft/min

(notice G2 loses @300ft/min by 10k, P38 loses just 100ft/min, P47 just 100ft, 190a8 500ft/min)

also a final test 1 complete roll time at 350mph no ordinance

7 seconds : 5 seconds : 3.5 seconds : 2.5 seconds


so the next time we are told the 110g2 performs like a p38 you can tell them its in their head!)

ok Luftwaffe types go dig out those chrts and see if this accurately represents the two aircraft
Ive done all im willing to do at the moment. This testing was REEEEAAALLy dull to do.



ADDED P47D30 and will later add a 190A8 or similar SE jabo type plane.
now ive got the formula its a lot easier hope this is helpfull to some.

ADDED 190A8 (4x20mm) as promised. these figures are quite interesting but we should remember that in tests done to see climbrates in real life they would climb at the aircrafts best climb speed not necessarily 160mph steady. This more represents the typical behaivour in the arenas(ie we take off, go on auto and wait until we get to our chosen alt).Still the 190a8s climb rate drops off quite sharply in many areas.notice though that a 190a8 could climb to 10k under wep faster than the p47 but then it would probably have to stop wepping (half used?guessing) and the P47 would be gaining fast.Usefull to know for low fights in MA.

[Tac]

The 110G2 is more manouverable and can retain control AND higher speed after dive than the 38. It also has a nasty WEP that can accel it to near 400mph much faster than the 38 can in a shallow dive. It also has a real nasty cannon load.

The only thing the 38 does better is climb and go vertical (but then again, what use is there to loop or try to h-head something that can spray 20mm and 30mm ammo at you )

38 is still a better ride because its more versatile, but in a G2 vs 38 1-1 coalt, i'd bet on the G2.

[Seeker]

Nice test.

[LJK_KämpferAs]

cheers for the in game info, time to look for all that flight data and see what we come up with

[hazed-]

added P47D30. PUNT

[BigCrate]

? shouldn't the 38L be around 414mph or more at 21k???

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=

[hazed-]

bigcrate i dont know if the ammo loadout affects the top speed or fuel load etc but basically this is the full ammo load with 100% at 500 ft to 21k testing a little wep here and there.

I left the aircraft on full wep in auto level at 21k for 4 minutes and the red TAS indicator was locked at 402mph(approx) from 3 minutes on.
My books state the P38L had a top speed of 414mph at 25,065 feet and mentions a glass nosed version without guns as well as the one we have in AH.So we have the possiblity it refers to the lighter glass nosed version, the fact we are not at the best altitude, the possibility that where i flew(absolutely straight line from same base for all aircraft) there may have been a head wind also.

If you can find evidence to show it should fly faster then do some tests like i have here, show the real data vs results from your AH tests and post them in a seperate thread but remember the variables involved.

This thread is purely aimed at dispelling the '110g2 is uber' myth and id rather it not turn into a 'P38 should perform better' debate but if these results point you to a fault or error then all the better.However I do not have the answers to what you ask as all i have on the P38 is books with top speeds stated.They do not mention how or with what ordinance this is achieved.The top speed may be a recon version or unloaded/light loaded ammo type.

I have been generous with the results for drop in climb rates with the p38 and p47. On the cockpit indicators there was negligable drops (or movement of the indicator) and i have reduced the climb rates by 50ft/min where it may well have been a lot less in places.From the outset I have tried to be totally impartial but the dials are far from precise to read.

[straffo]

Hazed if you use .speed + auto-climb you would have a better idea of your real speed than reading the gauge.

[hazed-]

straffo all aircraft were set to .speed 160 and set to auto climb. the problem isnt reading the speed its reading the climb rate indicator.

once level at 21k i allowed the aircraft to accelerate under non wep coditions until the speed indicator stoped moving, marked down the speed, then applied wep for up to 4.5 minutes.
all 3 planes were steady at top speed by 3 mins of wep.

[hazed-]

added the 190a8 PUNT

[LJK_KämpferAs]

nice job hazed

[hazed-]

This is specs given for 190a8 with same 4x20mm loadout in 'The wings if the Luftwaffe' by captain Eric Brown CBE,DSC,AFC,RN.
A flight tester of all the captured aircraft during and after the war.
AN excellent read and source of information.He comments on all aspects of the aircraft, which is an extensive list!

Focke Wulf 190a8 specification:
Power plant: On BMW 801D 14 cylinder radial air cooled engine rated at 1,700 hp for take off and 1,440 hp at 18,700 ft (5700m) fuel capacity 115.5 Imp gal (524 l) in two fuselage tanks plus 25.3 Imp gal (115 l) in optional rear fuselage tank plus provision for 66.2 Imp gal (300 l) drop tank,
Performance: (clean): Max speed 355 mph (571 km/h) at sea level, 402 mph (647 km/h) at 18,045 ft (5,500 m); max speed with GM1 nitrious oxide boost 408 mph (656 km/h) at 20,670 ft (6,300 m); normal cruising speed 298mph (480 km/h) at 6,560 ft (2,000 m); initial rate of climb 3,450 ft/min (17.5 m/s); time to climb to 19,685 ft (6000 m) 9.1 min; to 26,250ft (8000 m) 14.4 min; to 32,800 ft (10,000 m) 19.3 min; service ceiling 33,800ft (10,300 m) and with GM1 boost 37,400 ft (11,400 m); max range 644 mls (1,035 km) at 22,970 ft (7,000 m); range with one drop tank, 915 mls (1,470 km) at 301 mph (485 km/h) at 16,600 ft (5,000 m).
Weights: Empty equipped (clean) 7,652 lb (3,470 kg); empty equipped (fighter-bomber) 7,740 lb (3,510 kg); normal loaded 9,660 lb (4,380 kg); max take-off (fighter-bomber) 10,724 lb (4,865 kg)
Armement: two 13-mm MG 131 machine guns with 475 rpg in fuselage; tow 20-mm MG 151/20E cannon with 250 rpg in wing roots and two 20-mm MG 151/20E cannon with 140 rpg in outer wing panels.

So we have same loadout but in AH we dont even APPROACH 3000 ft/ min.Reading stuff like this just depresses me.Why is AH so different to what we see in the books? I trusted HTC had the right info on the 190s but this is a book written by an ALLIED test pilot.Hardly likely to lie about them.The book is very much written as a tester would describe an aircraft to another tester.
hope this opens a few eyes .

[mauser]

Good work hazed!

mauser