Author Topic: You gotta be freakin kidding me....  (Read 1124 times)

Offline gavor

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2002, 08:41:24 PM »
That was just nasty. Sure, nobody to rushed to Polands aid, but what were they going to do anyway? Realistically.

Offline Thrawn

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2002, 09:46:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding
By 1941 Britain had been fighting Germany for 2 years, alone and unaided;


Shhhh...what's that sound?  Oh, it's my grandfathers rolling over in their graves.  

Pretty frickin' arrogant statement there Dowding.  But I suppose colonials don't really count.:rolleyes:

Offline mietla

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« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2002, 10:44:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gavor
That was just nasty. Sure, nobody to rushed to Polands aid, but what were they going to do anyway? Realistically.


Britts was obligated by a treaty they've signed. Obviously there is no way to tell what would happen, but had Hitler been presented with a two front war, things might have been a bit different.

Offline gavor

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2002, 10:55:01 PM »
Maybe, but Britain was a little slow in making a decision. They didn't abandon Poland, the Prime Minister just dithered about because he believed Hitler when he said he wouldn't be invading people.

Perhaps a two front war would have made a difference, but in all likelyhood the Germans would have rolled over both defenders and Britain would have even less troops and materials for defending England itself. Remember Britain wasn't exactly in a prime position itself and didn't have the resources to go around saving everyone. Perhaps if the US became involved a little earlier things would have been different.

Offline koala

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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2002, 02:43:36 AM »
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They didn't abandon Poland, the Prime Minister just dithered about because he believed Hitler when he said he wouldn't be invading people.


You're right, they didn't abandon Poland.  They just sold out Chekoslovakia.

Offline Nashwan

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2002, 03:40:36 AM »
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Anybody have links to what the US has given out in foreign aid recently?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



no link, but I read it was in the neighborhood of 2 trillion per year.


US foreign aid is about $15 billion ayear, of which about $3 billion goes to Israel.

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Would not be alone if you hadn't sold out Czechs and Poles.

Britain gave a security guarantee to Poland, that it would go to war on Germany if Poland was attacked.

The Germans attacked, Britain went to war, and stayed at war when all countries other than the Empire had dropped out.

How is that a sell out?

The other point is, why the hell should Britain have had the responsibility of defending Poland and Czechoslovakia?

The Americans "sold out" the Czechs as much as the British did, and more so Poland because America didn't try to help. Why not accuse them of a sell out?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2002, 03:59:46 AM »
If such a tax is ever enacted the US must pull out of the UN. Two weeks later the UN will be finished and things will be fune. :)

World tax my ass.

Offline -tronski-

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Lend Lease
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2002, 06:36:39 AM »
Due to a 1934 law , all countries that had defaulted on their WW1 debts (as did Britain) were to be denied credit, and had to purchase all their materials in cash or bonds.

The bases in Bermuda etc were traded for 50 WW1 vintage destroyers, for by the summer of 1940 Britain was virtually bankrupt. Churchill had negotiated the deal so it was an early precendent of exchange in part gift, part payment.

It was only when Roosevelt was satisfied that Britain was truly nearly bankrupt, that he introduced the Lend-Lease Bill. In  dec 1940 the USS Louisville was sent to Sth Africa to pick up 42 million pounds in gold, the last of Britains negotiable assets after Britain was audited by the US treasury department to truly satisfy they were infact bankrupt.  On the 1st of March 1941 depts of $540 million were due for settlement by Britain (not all to the US). It was double the amount cash Britain possessed.
Churchill had asked both the Norwegian and Dutch govt in exile for cash but was refused. Only a 60 million pound loan by Belguim's govt. in exile saved Britain from complete economic collapse.

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Who supplied Britain in her darkest hour with her unlimited resources?


It could be seen that the US govt was quite happy to let Britain completely exhaust it self fighting the Germans, and only supplied the materials to fight the war because it knew it needed Britain as a base to invade Europe. It was only free because Britain had nothing left to give.
 
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They didn't abandon Poland, the Prime Minister just dithered about because he believed Hitler when he said he wouldn't be invading people


This is not true. By march '39 the British government knew war was inevitable. But the cost, and slow rearming of the British army had made even the idea of sending units to Poland after Sept3 impossible, let alone even finding a way to get there. The French army was even in worse shape.

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The other point is, why the hell should Britain have had the responsibility of defending Poland and Czechoslovakia?


In 18 April 1939 Maxim Litvinov proposed a Russo-France/Anglo alliance of between 5-10 yrs, in the case of agression by Germany. The French were willing to explore the pact, however the British were told by Poland that in no circumstances would it allow Red Army units on Polish soil, even if it was at war with Germany. Negotations between the British and Russians had significantly bogged down , when Stalin decided that a pact with Germany was in Russia's better interest.

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Pretty frickin' arrogant statement there Dowding. But I suppose colonials don't really count

 
It is pretty safe to assume that even though the Dominion armies (Canada, New Zealand, Australia,and South Africa) were led by Dominion commanders that answered to their respective governments, that Dowdings statement of Britain was on her own also included these Dominion forces.

Tronsky
« Last Edit: March 21, 2002, 06:49:54 AM by -tronski- »
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Offline bikekil

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2002, 07:26:34 AM »
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The Germans attacked, Britain went to war, and stayed at war when all countries other than the Empire had dropped out.


you kidding right? can you please tell me the exact day when Britain went to war? by that date i mean when Britain DID something, not TOLD THAT WILL DO.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2002, 07:39:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan
The Germans attacked, Britain went to war, and stayed at war when all countries other than the Empire had dropped out.


What leads you to believe that Canada was part of the Empire at this point in time?  

Canada declared war on Germany as an independant country.  The decaration of war was a bill proposed by Canadian Members of Parliment  and voted on Canadian Members of Parliment, who were voted into power by...you guessed it Canadians.  
« Last Edit: March 21, 2002, 07:42:13 AM by Thrawn »

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Lend Lease
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2002, 07:59:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -tronski-
Due to a 1934 law , all countries that had defaulted on their WW1 debts (as did Britain) were to be denied credit, and had to purchase all their materials in cash or bonds.

The bases in Bermuda etc were traded for 50 WW1 vintage destroyers, for by the summer of 1940 Britain was virtually bankrupt. Churchill had negotiated the deal so it was an early precendent of exchange in part gift, part payment.

It was only when Roosevelt was satisfied that Britain was truly nearly bankrupt, that he introduced the Lend-Lease Bill. In  dec 1940 the USS Louisville was sent to Sth Africa to pick up 42 million pounds in gold, the last of Britains negotiable assets after Britain was audited by the US treasury department to truly satisfy they were infact bankrupt.  On the 1st of March 1941 depts of $540 million were due for settlement by Britain (not all to the US). It was double the amount cash Britain possessed.
Churchill had asked both the Norwegian and Dutch govt in exile for cash but was refused. Only a 60 million pound loan by Belguim's govt. in exile saved Britain from complete economic collapse.

 
 
It is pretty safe to assume that even though the Dominion armies (Canada, New Zealand, Australia,and South Africa) were led by Dominion commanders that answered to their respective governments, that Dowdings statement of Britain was on her own also included these Dominion forces.

Tronsky


Thank you for correcting Dowding, I had left work yesterday with intent to search for this.

Offline mietla

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2002, 01:56:59 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
If such a tax is ever enacted the US must pull out of the UN. Two weeks later the UN will be finished and things will be fune. :)

World tax my ass.


I'm not so sure about that. There is many socialist dicks in our government who would be more than happy to tax us for the UN.

An income tax was unthinkable once.

Offline mietla

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2002, 02:03:17 PM »
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Originally posted by gavor
Perhaps a two front war would have made a difference, but in all likelyhood the Germans would have rolled over both


I'm not suggesting that Hitler would be defeated. With Russian attack Poland would probably be crushed anyway.

I was merely responding to Dowdings whiny lament that Britain fought alone.

They have architected this scenario.

Offline MrBill

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You gotta be freakin kidding me....
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2002, 03:04:29 PM »
OK, let em pass the tax then we can dress up like Native Americans and throw their whatever in the harbor.  Then they can send troops over to collect the tax and .... wait I think we've been here before??? ;) :D :D
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Offline midnight Target

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Article 5 of Master Lend Lease Agreement
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2002, 04:55:04 PM »
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ARTICLE V
The Government of the United Kingdom will return to the United States of America at the end of the present emergency, as determined by the President, such defense articles transferred under this Agreement as shall not have been destroyed, lost or consumed and as shall be determined by the President to be useful in the defense of the United States of America or of the Western Hemisphere or to be otherwise of use to the United States of America.


OK, give it back......I know you got a couple B-17's over there, and a few Ponies too.....give it up or we will taunt you a second time.
:cool: