Author Topic: B17 and the new guns model  (Read 967 times)

Offline -raxx-

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B17 and the new guns model
« on: November 02, 1999, 05:09:00 PM »
Damn I like it.  Yesterday I was bimbling along at 5k when a 109 bounced me near field 10.  I opened up with bursts at 1100 yards as the con swept in on a high 7 to level 6 attack, (and suffered greatly judging by the impact flashes and missing wing that followed).  No pings or damage on my nice shiney plane.

After grabbing up to 33kft I commenced my attack on field 19 and in the process a P51 grabbed slowly up on my tail and then the canny bugger tried to creep ahead of me for what looked like a classic 10-2 attack.  The only evasions I could make was to turn away and hopefully extend enough on the turn to give me 30 seconds for the bomb run.

Adding to my problems was a Mark IX Spitfire on my low 6.  By the time I had made a third pass the P51 had grabbed enough altitude to try an attack.  I was caught out in the pilot's seat and had to pull a hard banking turn avoiding the P51's gunfire.  This gave the Spit the chance to latch onto my tail so I set autoclinb and jumped to the tail gunner's seat. The P51 dropped away as I started firing on the Spitfire, (the P51 turned out to be Hitech and he had run out of fuel).  Again I opened up from 1100 yards and got good hits inside of 600 yards when the Spit started to open fire.  The .50 cals shredded the Spit's wing and it plummeted to the earth below, (after destroying the ball turret).

No more cons were anywhere to be seen so I completed the run at 19 while the rest of the Rooks attacking 19 suppressed the fighters and allowed the C-47 in to capture the field.

Things I have learned since the B17 got teeth...

When the B17 had no guns you needed altitude or several escort fighters to destroy an enemy field.  Now you just need altitude because the fighters don't have enough lift to perform any serious attacking manoevers at altitdue.  HT was the first person I'd seen trying to get above and ahead of my plane.  Everyone else so far has been too impatient to get above me and try to seriously shoot me down.

Adjusting fire is a necessity to make sure you give the target enough lead, ("lead" as in leading your dog).  The two simple methods I use in real life are :
 - Walking the rounds onto the target, (hold down the trigger and adjust your point of aim till the rounds impact the target), which is best for close in fighting where ammo isn't a consideration, (in RL for me under 300m with a .50cal and under 100m with LMG's).
 - Applying Aim Off, (best guess and fire a couple of rounds watching for the fall of shot then correcting and firing a few more rounds repeating the procedure untill the rounds strike the target), this is best for distant targets and where ammunition is low.

The last thing I've learned is that people have gotten into some really bad habits attacking unarmed planes, (especially the B17 prior to this revision).  Dragging low 6 attacks, straight line attack paths and firing well outside convergence ranges.  The B17 pilots in the meantime are going to higher and higher altitudes where the B17 has a manouvering advantage and is an excellent gun platform.  Attacking fighters seem to be shredded a lot easier because those pilots are to impatient to set up a good attack run.

All I need to do now is find out what striking the various factories in the enemy territory really does and which ones to hit.  Hi ho Hi ho and off to the archives I go....

Spotcha in the Air

Offline fats

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 1999, 05:58:00 PM »
--- raxx: ---
Attacking fighters seem to be shredded a lot easier because those pilots are to impatient to set up a good attack run.
--- end ---

Or another option is that there is not enough fuel to do it. The silly scaled fuel burn rate really kicks in at high alt stuff if you have to go around trying to overtake bomber( s several times ).


//fats

Offline Wardog

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 1999, 09:04:00 PM »
And on the other side of the coin..

I took my p51 for a tour of f11 (Kinights) then f12 (rooks) rook where invading there territory..

looking at my text buffer i see Shad,11 kills.. hmmm asked if he was in a buff.. yup gunning with someone piloting. he got 13 kills gunning thats sortie.. the 14th would have been me

I ran into his low buff (not knowing it was him) and went into vert dive.Cut the b17 in 1/2.. in total 4 b17 kills and a p51 kill.. then rtb with low ammo..

So,if ya tryin to take out a buff & live,you really need to be high & fast..

i only took a few pings that sortie with no damage..

I want me FW  

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--wd-- Jagdgeschwader 26 "Schlageter"
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Offline fats

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 1999, 09:11:00 PM »
Wow, #13! Uhmm, perhaps the .50cals are wee effective? I know I was blown to smitherens in a HO pass faster than WB's Otto is able to turn his turrets.

If you come in dead six, will all three, top, tail and ball ( 6 .50cals ), turrets be able to hit you?


//fats

chester

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 1999, 06:47:00 AM »
I dont know,B-17's dont seem that hard to kill.
Fly high big boys.I carry a tank go high and hunt you.Great fun!
I watch the fighter jocks get chewed up by the buffs. I cant belive anyone would make a run on a buff without alt.

Offline Vermillion

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 1999, 06:59:00 AM »
Fats, I am taking a wild guess here, but most likely the B-17 .50 cal MG's, don't directly correspond to the .50 cal MG's in other aircraft.

In other Brands of sims, there is an arena setting that allows you to adjust both the lethality and range of Gunners, independent of the ordinance on the Fighters.

I am guessing that is happening here, since in some of my buff attacks during the early testing, I was watching NateDog pick me off from around 1200 yards with just the fire from the top turret alone. Where I couldn't even hit the Fortress, with all x6 of my .50cals let alone kill it.

Evidently more tuning is needed  

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Offline Pongo

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 1999, 08:47:00 AM »
My first try at an armed 17 was supprising. I was approaching from his 5 low to try to overtake him for a front quarter pass and I wasnt far enough away. He was pinging me at 1.2-1.3.... I pulled back a little and looked at damage there was none I think. But any way pulled ahead of him and started to get a good position for a run and he turned back. Good dog fighting move on his part. horible strat bombing move. He gave up his run just because I moved into a position to take a shot at him. But that is why this game is so far above any non multi player game.  I considered it a win for me and went on to get killed by a 51 later on. The thing that supprised me was the range that his 50s could hit at.
I think that one effect of clouds that I havent heared mentioned will be neet. It will make the 17s high level attacks potentialy more difficult. Maybe that bomber would not have turned back if he new that he only had another 25 min of clear weather over the objective.


Offline brendo

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 1999, 05:15:00 AM »
My first B17 attack in the new version was while flying the 109. I parralleled the B17 and gently climbed at the same time. Getting ahead of it , I turned into it to attack from his 10 - 11 ocl.

I riddled his aircraft, then pulled heavy Gs  to again get into position on his high high side , just out of gunners range.

I climbed higher still and winged over down from above, turning left, but diving at high speed, I unloaded into the B17 again, this time killing him.

The pilot called me a dweeb and asked me to try THAT in warbirds.

<g> go figure. He never pinged me once.

My opinion? Smart pilots get smart kills.
Low 6 dweebs get what is coming to them.

BTW I also think that a buff gunner firing at 1100 is dweebish. Get some balls man! The real life .50s trajectorys changed at 1000 yards as the rounds went subsonic. Hold you fire till 600 yards and watch the parts fly off! Of course, I am an idealistic dreamer but, hey!

Offline Hristo

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B17 and the new guns model
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 1999, 06:01:00 AM »
High 11 or 1 o'clock attacks seem to be the hardest for a buff gunner, IMHO of course  

And since there is no Otto in this game, buffers really need some training, and they now deserve all those kills they get.

A single buff is vulnerable, just as it was historically.

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Hristo,
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Jagdgeschwader 51  Mölders