Author Topic: 190 roll rate  (Read 753 times)

Offline gripen

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190 roll rate
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2002, 05:18:32 PM »
Naudet,
The comparison is available from the PRO (AVIA 6/10353). And  yes, report claims that other two Fw 190s the Brits had that time had lighter ailerons than the one which was used for the comparison. And yes, the chart does not tell anything about roll acceleration.

Nashwan,
There is no serials mentioned in the report, the Spifires were mark Vs.

SageFIN,
You need to measure peak rolling velocity somehow to get omparable results with that NACA chart.

gripen

Offline illo

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190 roll rate
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2002, 06:38:18 PM »
I did 5.7sec/360 with typhoon at 250mph, Naca chart says 6.6sec.
With 190 2.5sec/360 at 250mph, Naca says 2.18sec(i also read 1.8sec somewhere)

Anyone has numbers for 190A with normal aerlons?

Offline SageFIN

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190 roll rate
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2002, 05:41:32 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by gripen
SageFIN,
You need to measure peak rolling velocity somehow to get omparable results with that NACA chart.


Yes, but I think that the best we can do is best average rolling velocity, without the roll inertia of the first 360 influencing the result. I can't think of a way to get the peak vel without an extra readout in the game except perhaps with the film viewer. Any suggestions?

Offline sourkraut

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190 roll rate
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2002, 11:31:27 AM »
Just curious about "lighter ailerons" vs. "heavier ailerons". Would lighter ailerons improve the roll rate at lower speeds, but cause stability issues at higher speeds? Were heavier airerons intended to improve dive speed performance?

Offline gripen

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190 roll rate
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2002, 05:40:59 PM »
SageFIN,
RAE made their measurements using special equipment like free gyro,  recorder and electrical timer (NACA did their tests with pretty similar instruments and actually DVL in the Germany used similar procedures too). I don't know if it is possible to measure steady rate of the roll from the AH film, timing should be very accurate and value of the angle  should be known exactly.

BTW RAE report contains also following part:
"Some interesting pictures of F.W.190s banking into tight turns have been obtained by R.A.F. pilots during actual combat, and have been communicated to us by the Operational Research Section of Fighter command. Fig.5 shows curves deduced from a typical selection which were taken from the attacking Spitfires with the G.45 camera gun. The films chosen were those in which the backround showed that the Spitfires were not rolling, so that the curves in Fig.5 represent the actual times to bank of enemy aircraft. The speed and height are unfortunately not known, but maximum rate of roll in Fig.4 is about 120 degrees  per second."
So the film method was also used by the RAE.

sourkraut,
Basicly heavier ailerons means that more force was required for same deflection iein the chart the difference would have been at high speeds where the stick force was the limiting factor. Anyway, the pilot could feel this heavines throughout the speed range. RAE report says:
"It should be pointed out, however, that where Frise ailerons are used, there is liable to be a variation in the feel of the control from aircraft to aircraft. Our pilots who have now flown three F.W.190s, have, in fact, noticed this variation; they report that the machine on which the measurements were made had rather heavier ailerons than the other two."

gripen