Author Topic: On Killshooter vs. PNG (Read 447 times)

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2002, 03:09:21 PM »

Sweet, so instead of getting "check 6" everytime I close on my kill because the guy 1.2K behind me and closing at 600MPH wants the kill.. he can just shoot me down instead?

No thanks, if I'm going to be killed because of a friendly, I'd much rather the burden of it being on myself. Atleast I can stop pulling the trigger.
-SW

Yeager · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2002, 03:42:02 PM »

Agreed wulfe.

AFAIC, the current killshooter setup handles the problem about as well as anyone has managed in any MMP. Honestly, I dont have a problem with killshooter. Its a non issue for me as it is.

Further, if hitech were to impliment a punishment value because I gunned down a greedy sob contryman who tried to swoop in for the kill steal I would just bag the game. No, if it worked in AW just let me say I didnt want AW then, I dont want it now.

Mathman · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2002, 04:40:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DamnedBuzzard

Does that mean your opinion on the subject is as much in error as your signature file or that you don't understand either ?

One would think a teacher who wanted to use big words to paraphrase a colloquialism could at least use the right big words.

You are right, I should have used hippophilic instead of equestrian. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out.
I will change it immediately.

One would think someone that was trying to provide a well thought out idea would have researched the bbs to find that the topic of concern (PNG vs. killshooter vs. other alternatives) had been discussed repeatedly, with the same result mind you, over the last several months.

whels · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2002, 05:51:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Yeager
Agreed wulfe.

AFAIC, the current killshooter setup handles the problem about as well as anyone has managed in any MMP. Honestly, I dont have a problem with killshooter. Its a non issue for me as it is.

Further, if hitech were to impliment a punishment value because I gunned down a greedy sob contryman who tried to swoop in for the kill steal I would just bag the game. No, if it worked in AW just let me say I didnt want AW then, I dont want it now.

as it is, KS is all 1 sided, and put NO, 0, NOTA burden on the
2nd party of the KS, when the pilot being shot, is as much
or more to blame for cutting infront of the friendly.

KS really stops nuthing, people still cut infront, fly through u, shoot over your shoulder. why? cause 9 out 10 times they dont
get KS, u do.

in the 8 years i flew AW, i rarely saw a problem with
PNG, when it did happen, most would auger to give the
pilot purposely doing it the kill.

whels

Rude · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2002, 06:37:00 PM »

I miss being able to shoot down the whiney guys....I'de change countries in a New York minute to have a crack at a few who fly here.

Sorry, that was the evil Rude....I'm really a nice person:)

sling322 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2002, 07:03:41 PM »

PNG is a terrible idea.

I cant think of a single instance when flying with my squad that I didnt ping at least one of them on purpose just for toejams and giggles.

Its really cool to fire tracers over their head just as you hit the 'check6' button.

With PNG instated, I would not be able to do this anymore without being subjected to no ammo.

ZeroPing · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2002, 08:30:54 PM »

Well im sure we can agree (most) that we hate hearing the PING sound when we get shot? Well, how about NO damage goes to the friendly that gets in front of you and NO damage goes to you either but what you hear is HORRABLE

you hear 2 times amount of pings as you put into him LOL here comes the bad part.
Spit I and Hurri I u ping a buddy ur going to be deaf becuase those .303 cal are going to nail him good for a while

But NO damage is done to any player and life goes on....... Even tho i havent seen/heard about killshooter in a VERY long time I know it is still a problem.

This is just a idea REMEMBER

Peace

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2002, 05:36:48 AM »

PNG is as absurd as our actual system or even more. You seem to think that the shooter is doing that on purpose, while the fact is totally different. Only those that have very little time in sims, that are just starting to learn who is "friend" and who is "enemy" are going to shoot at friendlies on purpose, in fact they will fire at anything that moves in their first days. I'm sure 99% of friendly fire occurences are pure accidents due the normal limitations of a flight sim (net lag, no way to scan the surrounding sky in a second, etc).

It is funny to see how we are punishing now friendly fire against someone crossing in your path, but, at the same time, we have friendly collissions turned off ... IMO, both are just the same thing.

Our actual system leads to sistuations as hilarious as the next one (few days ago):

I was chasing a SpitV at 400 yards, just about to open fire and another rook dived at my left, aproaching the spit from a different angle. I said, well, he will try a snapshot from the left without problems cause the spit was just target fixated and not evading. I opened fire at 200 yards but the other rook was too fast and was about to overshoot by the left, what did he? just to climb away? just a left barrel roll? nop, he did a hard right turn and put ALL his plane in front of my nose. As soon as I saw his plane entering into my front view area, I stop shooting, but I pinged he once. His plane literally eate my D9 while I lost the tail section. Well, the spitV got the credit for my death even being unaware of our presence.

In normal circunstances, that rook not only forced friendly fire, but also a friendly crash. The final result? a D9 killed by a SpitV ...

leitwolf · « **Reply #23 on:** March 26, 2002, 08:06:11 AM »

I dunno whether this has been brought up already or not: KS and PNG do have their respective drawbacks. Ok. Now. What if we had *both* solutions combined? This means: My bullets hit the friendly, he gets the damage as if an enemy plane had hit him and my plane gets the same ammount of damage (not necessarily the same damaged parts - i might fly a plane which is able to absorb more bullets). If nothing is damaged ( i.e. only a few accidental 'pings' on him) and he crashes i don't get courtmartialed because my fire was not the cause of his death.
If i kill his plane however, i'm in trouble.
This could lead to a 'realistic' behavior because neither the shooter nor the "receiver" (lol) can get any benefit from this. A nice addition would be if the killed person is able to forgive the teamkill hence the shooter does not become a PNG. This way a poor guy who evaporates a whole squad on takeoff would still be able to fly if the squad forgives him. The only way of abusing this system that crosses my mind is when a person willfully flies into the bulletstream of friendlies. However, the probabillity of flying into the fire of the same guy twice in 24 hours and killshooting him should be rather low - especially since the shooter is keeping a sharp eye on friendlies and thinks twice before pressing the trigger after his first teamkill.

How does this sound?

Flossy · « **Reply #24 on:** March 26, 2002, 09:21:26 AM »

To compare Killshooter with PNG in the first place is like comparing apples and oranges! Killshooter kills the shooter when fragging friendlies. The nearest equivalent in AW was actually "anti-fragging", which applied any damage to the person shooting. However even this wasn't used (or didn't work, not sure which) during recent times, as attempting to frag a friendly had no impact whatsoever on either the shooter or the target. Someone attempting to frag a friendly was just wasting ammo and getting nothing to show for it - I used to find these players (usually newbies who didn't know any better) quite amusing more than anything else, but would always try to help them by telling them they would get better results by killing the bad guys, and indicating what colour to look for!

During special events, however, fragging was usually enabled and this was just like having Killshooter OFF here, ie someone fragging a friendly would actually succeed in killing them, just as if they were an enemy, meaning extra care should always be taken during special events!

PNG was something totally different, in that it was more of a punishment resulting from killing two or more friendlies. Killing one friendly would give the shooter a message, "You have killed an Ally" which was a warning to go careful for the next 24 hours. Killing another ally during the next 24 hours would result in being PNG for 24 hours. Usually, providing care was taken during the initial 24 hours, the impending PNG status would then be wiped clean... however, if the person went on to kill another ally during that time, PNG would follow. This meant no ammo - either bullets or bombs - for 24 hours at least, depending how many allies had been killed. However, because fragging didn't cause any harm in recent years, the only way to go PNG was to drop bombs either on a friendly, or too close to the target with gunners on board. This used to happen most often when someone was doing a torpedo run with more than one gunner on board - they would drop the torpedo, then fly over the target as it hit, killing themselves and their gunners - instant PNG!

I saw this debated several times during my Air Warrior days, and the answer was always that the Pilot was responsible for the safety of his crew!

PNG could get quite complex if someone made a habit of fragging friendlies, and Mage once wrote an explanation of how it all worked, which I still have here if it is of any interest.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #25 on:** March 26, 2002, 10:53:21 AM »

The whines seen as an affect of killshooter would pale in comparison to the whines generated by someone that was just shot down by a friendly who had one PNG kill to blow before having to worry about it.

It would also pale in comparison to the person that now could not play for 24 hours because someone did the same thing as they did with killshooter enabled.

I fail to see how it promotes anything even remotely playable behavior wise. Now, if someone gets between you and a target you've been fighting, you ping him or shoot him down. Then you explain how that was all his fault and if he doesn't want that to happen, he shouldn't get in between you... despite the fact that you deliberately did it.

Or now you can actually clear someone off of an enemy if you are coming in for the kill. No need to worry about sending a few into his wing anymore. And you can completely forget about that check-6 function... you don't need the bogus calls anymore.

PNG just offers more opportunity for people to act like asses. Considerably more.

AKDejaVu