Author Topic: A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang  (Read 666 times)

Offline leonid

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« on: July 05, 2000, 11:21:00 PM »
This was placed in another post indirectly, so it seemed wise to make sure my challenge was issued for all to hear.

Are there any pony drivers out there willing to fight the Yak-9U in a 2 vs 2 duel?  I feel Hangtime should be exempt as he's already been through enough of this, but the challenge remains open to a pair of P-51 flyers who are willing to duel two Yak-9Us in a merge duel at 10k.  Should this duel be unanswered in two weeks time, I can only assume that the Yak-9U is its superior.

Poka!
ingame: Raz

Offline DoctorYO

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2000, 11:30:00 PM »
well at 10k i agree the yak is very close if not superior... how bout you fight me at 16k or say 25k......

any... Takers...Yakmen....


agree to those lame terms and see if you win ...

btw you should read Sun Tzu's work again....

"Fight on your terms not your enemy's"


DoctorYo(Sado Numspa) sends his regards....

[This message has been edited by DoctorYO (edited 07-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DoctorYO (edited 07-05-2000).]

Offline leonid

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2000, 12:35:00 AM »
DoctorYo,
You have my apologies, Sir.  I had no idea you were so sensitive about this.  16k sounds fine.  Do I assume you have accepted the challenge then?
ingame: Raz

Offline Soulyss

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2000, 12:38:00 AM »
Actually I think the P51 is about 50mph faster at 10k than the Yak-9.  Just by lookin at the speed charts here on the HTC site.   And no I'm not volenteering to fly in teh duel I pretty much suck 1v1 or even 2v2 so I wouldn't be the best representative for the pony drivers hehe.

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"Smoke me a kipper boys, I'll be back for breakfast"

[This message has been edited by Soulyss (edited 07-06-2000).]
80th FS "Headhunters"
I blame mir.

Offline leonid

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2000, 12:48:00 AM »
Soulyss,

I agree.  I was very surprised and flattered that DoctorYo decided to give me the Yak advantage at 16k, rather than accept the 51 advantage at 10k.  He must be a formidible flyer to have such confidence, and I would relish such a challenge.
ingame: Raz

Offline Hangtime

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2000, 05:30:00 PM »
LOL Leonid!

I have no experince vs a yak.. other than remarking to my squaddies after one encounter.. "it's a damned good spit without squat fer guns"

The climb seemed quite good.. and it seemed to corner much better than a spitty. The one I ran into had a heluva kill streak goin down low on the deck, chopping down all comers when the were slow by forcing an overshoot and then climbing right up his ass.. Took me a coupla B&Z passes to get enuff lead into it to kill it... and I stayed well above 400mph while it was a contender; or he woulda had my pelt too  

Now; I tend to avoid 'em; since they seem more nimble than a spit and have one heluva speed and climb potential. I expect any pony driver that runs up against a pair of these is in for a very nasty surprise.

I'd say that you better bake a cake for the good Doctors surpise party.  

Just for the record.. whats the ROE??

Good luck!!

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Piradow

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2000, 06:50:00 PM »
Leonid!!! U still alive...  
in my time u used to fly La5... Good for u now flying Yaks  
Good luck!

Offline CRASH

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2000, 06:50:00 PM »
IN !!      No level merge 10k, only alt limit.  Email me...pete177@aol.com

CRASH

[This message has been edited by CRASH (edited 07-06-2000).]

Offline SnakeEyes

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2000, 07:15:00 PM »
Fair fights are for suckers.  

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SnakeEyes
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Offline leonid

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2000, 11:11:00 PM »
Hangtime,
Hehe, yeah the Yak is a real screamer but it's the HO'ing spits that tend to get me the most.  I boom them, they whip around into the vert, get nose to nose, send some hispanos my way, I lose a wing, I bail.  I'm gonna have to do something about that.

Pirado!!!
Que se pasa?!  Long time no hear.  Are you returning to AH soon?  How was your travels?  I no longer fly the La-5FN in the MA, since it makes much more sense to fly a late war Yakovlev here.

CRASH,
Thanks for accepting the duel.  I know I'm coming off as an arrogant bastard, but that's just in fun.  Actually, I like dueling from time to time, just so I can stay sharp.

SnakeEyes,
I hear ya, and I'll take your jib.  But a duel says a lot about the performance of an aircraft, since its usually that performance that decides it, given dissimilar aircraft.  Air forces the world over have used it (albeit w/o firing guns) during war to determine relative ability between combatant aircraft.  I'm not doing this to see if I can better a particular pilot, but to see if the Yak can better the Pony.  

Besides, it makes a great betting platform.  Heck, I won a free month of AH by betting on a duel  
ingame: Raz

Offline SnakeEyes

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2000, 12:20:00 AM »
Hear hear Leonid... but I've got a slightly different proposition for you (even though I don't play AH):

Take a four man formation of your best Yak pilots, a full tank of gas, and see how many planes you guys can splash before having to RTB.

Similarly, have someone like Hangtime take a four man group of AH's best P-51 pilots, a full complement of gas, and see how many kills they can get before they have to RTB.

Or simply make part of the duel contingent on taking off from a field at the edge of the territory, meeting at the center of the map, and having to RTB to the field you rolled from.    Not an easy proposition in the Yak... but reasonably straightforward for the 51 pilot.

Perhaps you see my point now?  You are trying to compare two totally dissimilar aircraft which were designed for two entirely different jobs.  The Yak is a point-defense aircraft, while the P-51 is a long-range escort that also was pressed into other duties.  Remove a few thousand pounds of weight to turn the P-51 into a point-defense fighter with a 550 mile range and a late 1944 Merlin (e.g. - V-1710-119) and the results might be pretty interesting (the lightweight prototypes (F, G, and J), which were still designed for escort duty, racheted speeds up to 466, 472, and 491 TAS respectively).  In fact, the P-51H (which was coming off the production lines by the beginning of February 1945) topped off at 487 TAS.  Similarly, add enough fuel for another 1,500 miles range to the Yak-9U, as well as some extra guns, and add a mid 1943 engine, and you might find that the Yak performs alot like the P-51D.

Neither one is better... they are simply different planes, designed for different jobs.  The Yak would have to be totally redesigned to provide long-range escort, and I would expect to see some pretty substantial changes if the P-51 was going to be explicitly used for point-defense or short-range A2G work.

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SnakeEyes
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=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 07-07-2000).]

Offline Hristo

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2000, 12:20:00 AM »
Pirado !!!

You are 4 months late, my friend.

You got some of us worried. How have you been ?

Report to nearest Luftwaffe base immediately. They might still have an Fw 190A-5 for you.

Offline leonid

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A Challenge to the P-51D, Mustang
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2000, 12:52:00 AM »
Very true, SnakeEyes.  I agree with you.  I even had one duel while in WB, where we fought a LW squad and the ROE was basically take-off, find each other, fight, then see how many get back home.  No alt restrictions, nothing.  Basically an historical engagement.  And for me, the most fun too.

But I have to say that while the P-51D and Yak-9U were built for different missions, they were built to engage and shoot down fighters.  Thus, when it comes down to it, since P-51s do end up in combat against Yak-9Us in the MA in AH, then a duel to discern comparative abilities is a valid exercise - for the purposes of the MA.  There are certainly many variant possibilities for most of the fighters of WWII, but that only detracts from what actually was built and used in WWII.  

Incidently, the VVS had at least one excellent fighter variant (Yak-3U) that would have easily bested the Yak-9U, but for them it was a matter of not interrupting their existing production flow.  Thus, this most amazing fighter never saw series production.
ingame: Raz