Author Topic: Pyro, could you please look at the Japanese planeset (Read 356 times)

oboe · « **on:** March 29, 2002, 08:03:55 AM »

Using Tour 26 as the base:

Using the Western European Theater as a control base:

United States: Bombers - 4, Fighters - 11
Britain: Bombers - 2, Fighters - 10
-vs-
Germany: Bombers - 2, Fighters - 13

In the Pacific Theater, we have:

United States: Bombers - 4, Fighters - 11
Britain: Bombers - 2, Fighters - 10
-vs-
Japan: Bombers - 1, Fighters - 3

I feel that the Japanese planeset in AH is in particular need of augmentation. The Japanese began outright hostilites against Allied powers in the Pacific during December of 1941, and continued fighting past the Italian capitulation in 1943, and Germany's defeat in May 1945. They fought against aircraft from every major Allied nation, including Russia, Australia, and New Zealand. In addition, they were the primary opponent of the US Navy and Marines during WWII.

The Japanese put into the field during 1944 some very fine performing aircraft, which in addition to providing balance in the CT and PTO events, will find great utility in the MA. Naval strike aircraft like the D4Y "Judy" and B6N "Tenzan" possessed the same or superior performance to the USN's strike aircraft, and would make PTO carrier battle events possible.

Several more Japanese fighters are worthy of inclusion in AH:
[list=1]

The Ki.44 Shoki, a mid-war fast climbing interceptor for the Japanese Army Air Force;
The J2M3 "Jack", the Japanese Navy's land-based counterpart to the Shoki;
The Ki.84, Japan's fastest and probably all-around best performing fighter of the entire conflict;
the Ki.100, a hasty lashup of a radial engine to the Ki.61 airframe which turned out to be a very successful fighter, and very competitive against the late-war Allied planes menacing the Japanese homeland.

Wanker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2002, 08:35:23 AM »

AMEN!

I believe Pyro is looking in that direction anyways, Oboe. The CM's have also presented a list of aircraft we'd like to have for our events, and the Midway/Coral Sea/Guadalcanal planeset is at the top of our list: B5N, D3A, F4F, SBD, A6M2, P-40.

Can't wait to do a PTO scenario!

Ghosth · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2002, 08:36:45 AM »

Punt

Ohhh and don't forget Mavis& Emily flying boats.

Kieran · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2002, 08:47:34 AM »

What, no Douglas Devestator? I wanted to be Ensign Gay (hardy-HAR for the inevitable jokes) and watch Midway while holding a seat cushion over my head...

Sikboy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2002, 08:48:41 AM »

For a very interesting viewpoint on this subject, check out this thread: http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49048

While I don't agree with Bullethead's hard stance on MA utility, I can't fault his logic. We simply place importance on different aspects, both hoping to achieve a supperior product, but by different means.

-Sikboy

tanij · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2002, 08:51:30 AM »

Thank you Oboe:)

Many Japanese playing AH, and they want more
Japanese planes (mee too).
Your suggestion will encourages us.

aztec · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2002, 09:36:23 AM »

Plz don't forget the Ki-43:)

oboe · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2002, 09:54:32 AM »

My pleasure, tanij.

I'm excited at by the prospect of PTO scenarios, but we are so close to filling a Phillippines/Leyte planeset out, I'd be sad to see AH abandon finishing this set in favor of starting all over with the PTO in 1942. Really, just 4 planes could do it - the D4Y, the B6N, the Ki.84, and either the SBD-5 or SB2C-4. (The SBD is probably the better choice as it could freely sub into the 1942 planeset - its performance improvement over the early model won't make that much difference. I'm really an SB2C fan though because it is so dang ugly and relatively unknown, but very useful).

Plus, all the above planes would still be competitive in the MA, which is not true for the planes from the earlier war planeset.

The PTO of 1942-43 is going to be well covered by the upcoming Target:Rabaul sim, and Warbirds III, assuming it survives. If HTC keeps its PTO development grounded in late war, it'll have a planeset that differentiates it from the other sims.

I think early war PTO scenarios are appealing because of the historic images they remind us of - the desparate battles, the turning point of the war and all. But when modelled in sims, the Japanese lose a significant advantage they had at that point in the war - highly trained and experienced combat crews versus well-trained but inexperienced US crews. In a sim where most pilots from both sides are relatively experienced, the weaknesses of the early war Japanese planes are exploited and the Japanese suffer as you would expect.

In the late-war years, Japanese aircraft were sturdier and more competitive with their US counterparts. The historic record doesn't bear this out, with engagements like the Marianas Turkey Shoot, etc, as representative of the time. But the horrendous losses suffered by the Japanese during this time IMHO are due more to the young, inexperienced, and outnumbered flight crews forced into fight than by any deficiencies in their aircraft.

I think we'll have much more even-sided and competitive fights in the late-war setting than in the early war setting, and that's what I'm looking forward to.

~~all!~~

Vermillion · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2002, 10:27:52 AM »

Oboe, I've had a Phillipines Sea Scenario (largest Carrier battle in history) mostly written for quite some time, which is much more interesting than Leyte

And the same period.

The SBD while nice isn't critical, since you can use the TBF as the US torpedo bomber.

And your right in that we could really use the Judy and the Jill.

However you missed one off your list for the US that was both numerous and would be needed for the play balancing. The FM-2 Wildcat. If you go back and look at the actual numbers, there was large numbers of FM-2's flying for Marine squadrons and off little Jeep carriers.

Besides scenarios, I would love to see the Ki-84 and the P1Y2 for just arena use.

thrila · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2002, 10:39:46 AM »

I think superfly is still recovering from Mitsu's over zealous (his heart is in the right place bless him:) ) criticism of the ki67. It'll be a while until he recovers from his nervous breakdown.

Last thing anyone heard about Superfly he was shaking in the corner of a mental hospital talking gibberish. The only words people could make out were "......mitsu.......ki67.....".

Viper17 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2002, 11:23:50 AM »

stupid rice burners. MORE ITALIAN THINGS PLEASE.
My list is

He111-h
Ju-87-e
Ju-52
G-55
Sm-79?
G-50
C-202 and 205 with bombs
Catalena
Fm-2
F4F
Catalena
Sunderland
Beaufighter
P-39
P-400
P-61

My list

Sikboy · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2002, 11:59:06 AM »

Holy Hijack!

oboe · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2002, 12:01:45 PM »

Superfly, the Ki.67 is gorgeous!

Verm, I just looked up the production numbers of the FM-2. Over 4700 of the 7800+ Wildcats were actually FM-2s. I agree, it would be a nice addition.

I remember them being a real handful in WBs - they could turn tight all day long, then jump all over you if your E got too low.

popeye · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2002, 12:43:57 PM »

mmmmmmmmmmmm.......FM2......

Oh, yeah.....more Japanese planes, too.

Steven · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2002, 01:34:00 PM »

<>-Kieran

I would've left it alone had you not added the part about holding your head to a seat cushion. I can only imagine the visualization by someone who hasn't a clue who G. Gay is or what he used that cushion for.

To the true heart of this thread, I agree. PTO. PTO. PTO.