B-25

[Airscrew]

One of the reasons I recall for HT not having a B25 in AH was it was just too common,  a kind of been there done that.   However I have an idea, where we can have the B25 and HT can be different.

Marine Corps  B25's
See this info at http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/b025-19.html

Also more here http://rwebs.net/dispatch/output.asp?ArticleID=20


The PBJ-1 was a navalized version of the USAAF B-25.
Large numbers of B-25H and J variants were delivered to the Navy as PBJ-1H and PBJ-1J respectively.

The PBJs were operated almost exclusively by the Marine Corps as land-based bombers. To operate the PBJ-1s, the US Marine Corps established a number of bomber squadrons, beginning with VMB-413, in March of 1943 at Cherry Point, North Carolina. Eight VMB squadrons were flying PBJs by the end of 1943, forming the initial Marine Medium Bombardment Group. Four more were in the process of formation in late 1945, but had not yet deployed by the time the war ended.

PBJ-1Hs served with VMB-412, VMB-413, VMB-423, VMB-433, VMB-443, VMB-453, VMB-463, VMB-473, VMB-483, VMB-611, VMB-612, VMB-614, VMB-621, VMB-622, VMB-623 and VMB-624. VMB-413, 423, 433, 443, and 611 operated in the Central and South Pacific, and BMB-612 and 613 operated in the Central Pacific.

Operational use of the Marine Corps PBJ-1s began in March of 1944. The Marine PBJs operated from the Philippines, Saipan, Iwo Jima and Okinawa during the last few months of the Pacific war. Their primary mission was the long range interdiction of enemy shipping that was trying to run the blockade which was strangling Japan. The weapon of choice during these missions was usually the five-inch HVAR rocket, eight of which could be carried on underwing racks. Many of the PBJ-1C and D versions carried a rather ugly, bulbous antenna for an APS-3 search radar sticking out of the upper part of the transparent nose. On the PBJ-1H and J, the APS-3 search radar antenna was usually housed inside a ventral or wingtip radome. Some PBJ-1Js had their top turrets removed to save weight, especially toward the end of the war when Japanese fighters had become relatively scarce.

The weapon of choice during these missions was usually the five-inch HVAR rocket, eight of which could be carried on underwing racks. Many of the PBJ-1C and D versions carried a rather ugly, bulbous antenna for an APS-3 search radar sticking out of the upper part of the transparent nose. On the PBJ-1H and J, the APS-3 search radar antenna was usually housed inside a ventral or wingtip radome. Some PBJ-1Js had their top turrets removed to save weight,

[fdiron]

"Deployment of the B25H-5: June, 1944

During the first two weeks of June, the 498th Squadron recieved a complement of 14 brand-new B25H-5s direct from the states, along with 16 aircrews to fly them.  The six-man crews had been part of a secret unit which had been given special training in the use of the plane's new M.I.T.-developed radar-controlled gun sight at the Army Air Corps Proving Ground at Eglin Field, Florida, during February and March.

The gun sight for aiming the 75mm cannon consisted of a glass reticle in front of the pilot containing a circle and a dot.  From his bucket seat to the right of the pilot, the bombardier worked the crank which linked the sight up with the radar scope, which sat in front of him with a face piece over it.  As the pilot flew towards a target, it appeared as a pip on the radar screen at about 5000 yards.  The pip would advance across the screen from the right as the plane approached, finally centering over a small step on the screen.  The bombardier would then turn the crank which moved the step and the pip together.  This automatically turned the reticle in front of the pilot, who flew the plane to keep the reticle lined up on the target.  He would usually begin firing the cannon at a range of between 3500 and 4000 yards.  The system was so accurate that during training one of the pilots had severed a steel support for a wooden ship target in Eglin Bay with a single round from the cannon."

Page 165
Warpath Across the Pacific
Lawrence J. Hickey

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by MajTom
The weapon of choice during these missions was usually the five-inch HVAR rocket, eight of which could be carried on underwing racks.

Thanks, MajTom.  Sure was news to me, as was fdiron's information on the radar sighting system for the 75.

- Oldman

[Toad]

From Warpath Across The Pacific, Lawrence J. Hickey, pg 165.

Unfortunately, most of the missions being flown by the 345th at that time were against targets for which the radar was ineffective. While a ship on the water was an ideal target for the radar system, land targets caused so much background clutter on the radar screeen that it was practically impossible to distinguish a specific object such as a building or a plane sitting on an airfield. Moreover, pilots continued to be uneasy about flying without a co-pilot, especially in the low-level role. The plane was even more of a threat to the (p. 166) bombardiers. It turned out that in a ditching or a crack up, the radar console had a tendency to fall back into the operator's lap, causing serious injury or pinning him to the seat. If the plane had a fire aboard or ditched, this could and did prove fatal.

[snip part about bombardier getting pinned]

Eventually, several bombardiers went to the Squadron C.O. and complained about the problem. These factors, plus a shorter range and the extra maintenance required to keep the H-5's in flying condition, resulted in a decision by late July to discontinue their use in the theater. They would be transferred out of the 498th as soon as B-25J's became available to replace them."

Basically, they gave them a try for two months and decided to get rid of them.. at least in the 345th.

But Iron's right.. they did have radar on some H's. The G's and H's prior to this "experiment" were manually aimed by the pilot using an "inverted Christmas" tree sight. That style comprised the overwhelming number of G and H models used.

[Airscrew]

I have decided to keep searching for data on the internet on the B25.  
I will continue to post stuff here until HT decides to bring the B25 to AH. (or they lock this thread, and I get banned for being annoying)  

This site more stuff  http://uboat.net/allies/aircraft/b25.htm

In the summer of 1942 the USAAF and the USN came to an agreement which allowed the Navy to operate land-based bombers. In early 1943 the Marine Corps began to receive its first B-25Cs, which were given the Navy designation PBJ-1C. On 17 March 1944 the "Flying Nightmares" of VMB-143 flew their first operational mission, against Rabaul  A total of 706 aircraft were delivered to the USN and USMC. These aircraft were painted grey, or later sea blue. Radar was installed, and depending on the type it was under the aft fuselage, on the wing tip, or in the nose. Their normal armament consisted of depth charges, but they could also carry a torpedo. Nine USMC squadrons used the PBJ-1 in combat.

[fdiron]

In another B25 book of mine I have pictures of the rocket tubes mounted on B25s.  I can email it to anyone if they really want it.

Trivia- The AIr Corp experimented with a huge flame thrower mounted on B25s.  It had a bad habit of burning the plane.

[BenDover]

Originally posted by fdiron
Trivia- The AIr Corp experimented with a huge flame thrower mounted on B25s.  It had a bad habit of burning the plane.

lol, what do you expect? the plane would be moving into the flame

[spitfiremkv]

Anybody read "The saga of Pappy Gunn"? I'm not sure if the title is correct. Anyways, he was one of the first to field-modify B25Cs with a glazed nose by adding machine guns and a solid nose. Also, the novel "Whip" by Martin Caidin deals with the same subject, but it's purely fiction.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by spitfiremkv
Also, the novel "Whip" by Martin Caidin deals with the same subject, but it's purely fiction.

Heh heh.  So is most of the stuff he wrote.

- oldman

[Airscrew]

Fdiron, please post the pics would like to see the rockets on the B25,  also if you or anybody else has any pics of the Navy/Marine B25's,  lots of data on the internet but sofar I cant find any pics.

I think Pappy was the one that had the idea or some of the pilots did and had his guys do field mods adding the gun.

somewhere I have a book with that stuff but its probably in my sister's attic with my b17 books and everything else I seem to be not able to find.

[Yippee38]

FWIW, I heard that the 75 could be fired three times only.  If fired more than that in a short time, the cockpit would be so filled with smoke that the pilot could not see.

Yippee38

[chunder']

Doesn't have rockets loaded, but you can see the racks...

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/bombers/b25j-6.jpg

[SpinDoc1]

As for the para frags mentioned above, those were a result of low level bombs damaging the attacking aircraft (that happen to anyone in AH? I always do that with rockets, blow myself up). So the parachute slows it so that the B25 would be out of the way when it exploded.

The skip bombs were something neat. They were specially fused so that B25s could fly at a ship and a few hundred yards out release a bomb and it would skip like a flat rock across the water. The special fuses were needed so that the bombs didn't explode on water contact but only when they slammed into the side of a ship.

If any new weapon additions were made on this technical of a level, I would be very pleased.

Just my piece.

Jason

[BenDover]

skip bomb as in the lancaster's bouncing bombs??
cool, lets have some dams

[BUG_EAF322]

lot off dutch flew em in the pacific and in europe
i like to have one with a big dutch flag on it