Author Topic: aircraft, air combat, and visibility  (Read 340 times)

Offline leonid

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« on: April 03, 2002, 12:36:08 PM »
Yeah, I know, I haven't been around lately(well, actually I have, just not as leonid - online that is), but I would like to get some input from you guys.

It's about visibility in air combat.  Can some of you with the knowledge give me some parameters on visibility?  The ones I'm particularly interested in are, on a clear day:[list=1]
  • distance aircraft are generally spotted.
  • distance aircraft types are generally discernible.
  • distance tactical markings on aircraft are generally discernible.
Any informed input would be greatly appreciated :)
ingame: Raz

Offline Virage

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2002, 05:46:45 PM »
A qoute from Mike Spick's "The Ace Factor, Air Combat and the Role of Situational Awareness".

"A single aircraft from head or tail-on could be picked out at between one and two miles.  If banking this distance would double, while a formation or a dogfight would often be visible from between four and six miles.  The sun always caused a blind cone about fifteen degrees wide.  The human eyeball has not changed, and these limits still apply for comparable sized aircraft."
JG11

Vater

Offline bozon

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2002, 06:20:19 PM »
these figures very ALOT. it depends if the air is clear, the background, person's eye sight, and if searching or concentraiting in a spot.
but from RL experience, jet fighter pilots can (on a clear day with sky in background) spot other fighter up to 7-8 nmiles (nmile=1.8km), but they have a radar mark on the HUD that helps them. on the other hand, they can pass really close to each other without seeing.

identifying plane type distance very even more. just for some refrence, spotting if a fighter has two tail or one can be done from about 3 nmiles. for real id you work by ruling out options. if you see a two tail plane like the p-38 and you know there are no other planes like that it can be done from really afar. i guess to tell the difference betwin a p51 and 109 from top view would be much much less (read on the net a story about a p-47 pilot who shot a p-51 thinking it was a 109, and he was close).

markings are sometime easier to id than plane type.
to read the planes ID letters on todays civilian planes you need to be under 1 nmile away. color (light/dark) can be told from about 3 miles. from far away all planes look dark even if they are painted white.

Bozon
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Offline Tac

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2002, 07:55:21 PM »
hehe


Offline leonid

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2002, 10:33:16 PM »
Thanks, guys!
ingame: Raz

Offline Buzzbait

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2002, 11:47:23 PM »
S!

Aircraft were much easier to spot when silhouetted against the sky or against cloud formations than against the ground.  Spotting an aircraft against ground clutter, (except when there was a canopy of snow) was very difficult, especially if the target aircraft was well camoflauged.

Distances at which aircraft could be as low as 1 mile and up to 5 miles depending on the visual background.

Unfortunately that is very difficult to simulate in a Flight Sim.

I'm betting you are working out new icon ranges for IL-2's post patch viewing system...   ;)

Offline leonid

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2002, 11:41:10 AM »
Quote
I'm betting you are working out new icon ranges for IL-2's post patch viewing system...


Yes, you're right :)  Funny thing is I've never given much thought to this aspect of air combat, placing my trust in the game developers.  It's actually quite interesting, and surprising too.
ingame: Raz

Offline Makarov1

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2002, 04:03:41 PM »
Hey leonid!

Good to see you back in AH. I will have to look for you (sokol) next time I'm up.

Offline leonid

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aircraft, air combat, and visibility
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2002, 04:57:54 PM »
Hi Mak :)

I was pleasantly surprised to see that 715 also shows up from time to time.
ingame: Raz