Of "furballers", "realism" and the MA...

[Buzzbait]

S! Lazs

If you are saying don't desert your buddies in melee, no a pilot didn't.  As long as he could see his wingman or members of his Squadron and they were engaged, then he tried to fight with them, using the team tactics he had been taught.

However, as soon as he lost sight of friendlies...

Most airforces, (I know the British , U.S. and German) told their pilots if they were separated from their wingman or Squadron to immediately exit the combat area and either try to rendezvous at a previously agreed location, or return to their home base.  They were absolutely not to stay and fight alone unless they were compelled to.

This combat doctrine was based on the simple fact that survivability of an individual aircraft in the air to air enviroment was low.  The odds just didn't payoff to fight alone.

Of course it is a lot easier to spot your buddies in AH than in RL.  Those nice green nametags over their head help.

As far as improving tactics in the MA:

I don't know.  Haven't been there for a while.  I do my flying in HTH, and usually in a Team server.  Based on my observations of that enviroment and the enviroment I saw in AH's MA when I was there, I'd say more team flying would payoff for the side which employed it.  Of course you probably couldn't get together Squadron strength units, but it seems to me that a 4 ship Flight, using Wingman tactics and coordinated attacks would be quite successful.  It sounds like that is practiced by certain Squads on a fairly regular basis.  A larger number of pilots, say 8 or 12, using those tactics would be devastating.

All sides used formation attacks, even when they were Japanese flying Zeros or Brits flying Spits.  The only difference was that the Brits might follow an opponent through a few more turns than a German might.

[lazs1]

buzz... we agree... when you are outnumbered and alone or hurt you should make it to the rendevous point.  

I have noticed tho lately in AH a much greater tendency for squads to enter the melees together and protect their squaddies more fiercly.  The remndevous point is not needed with the shorter distances to fields but many guys exit furs (telling squaddies they are doing so), gain alt or position, and then return.

I find these dynamics very "historical" and the chatter on RW is amazingly familiar sounding to history buffs.  

I think a lot of people get german tactics anbd their situation confused with the rest of the WWII participants.   The LW was allways weak in one respect or another.  They had to conserve pilots and planes and their pilots had enormous hours or evidence of how to survive.   Many of the other countries were filled with glory seekers and headhunters.   They had the numbers to back em up too or, like russia.. they didn't much care how many they lost so long as they got their ground support role taken care of.

Again.... someone tell me about something they do in AH that is more "historical" than the furball.  

If strat means destroying the enemies fighters like the B17 raids did  or fighter sweeps then the furballers in AH are the "strat" guys.   so far as I can see, every other type of fighting in AH is just..... quake.
lazs

[Weave]

Quote: unlike noble furballers they have a lot of spare time and use that to envision more and more anal, complex and contradictory elements that they are sure will highlight
their particular "talent"

Can no one make a point without insulting the holder of a differing view?  

[Buzzbait]

S! Lazs

Actually the USAAF Fighter boys flew in exactly the same fashion as the Luftwaffe right up until May '44.  By that time the German fighter force was so weakened that the Americans were able to start flying lower level missions and emphasize ground attack more.

The British too used the same basic formation tactics as the Luftwaffe.

Only the Russians developed a different set of techniques.  That was largely because they focused on low level ground support missions almost exclusively.  Their fighter aircraft rarely went over 15,000 ft, and more often operated at 10,000 or lower.

This was because they were primarily escorting formations of IL-2's and PE-2's.  And those aircraft needed to be at around 5-7000ft in order to see their ground targets.

The Russians developed a somewhat disorderly style of formation.  A British pilot who saw them described it as being similar to a flock of starlings, with the a pack of planes wheeling and turning in a big cloud.  He thought they were just poor flyers who had no formation sense, but there was actually logic behind what they were doing.

Because they were operating at lower alt. levels, and they had to deal with higher altitude German fighters bouncing them on a regular basis, the idea of flying the usual orderly formations that the Allies and Germans did would just make them easy targets.  On the other hand if their planes were constantly changing positions and moving around, it would make it more difficult for a unseen German aircraft in a diving attack to get a good shot.

A couple other comments:

Seeing another aircraft against ground clutter was quite difficult.  In many instances, especially when there was a cloud layer, it was easier to spot an opponent silhouetted against the cloud layer than one which was lost in the mass of objects on the ground.  The fact there was snow on the ground in the Soviet Union was a significant advantage in spotting for a higher altitude aircraft.  This was because the aircraft would be once again silhouetted against the white mass of snow.  This was particularly the case in the Steppe areas of the Ukraine and the Donbass.  In Western Europe, with the milder climate, snow on the ground was far less common.

[lazs1]

weave... who said that?  The guy is a genius... insightful, consise and too the point.

buzz... we are agreeing but... I think the germans allways flew in larger numbers and were more cautious.   even at the end they would go up in very large numbers hitting the miles long B17 formations at one point in a concentrated bunch with local superior numbers.   The fresher U.S. pilots could be said to be more agressive.   The russians allso flew at full throttle most of the time because they knew they would be bounced and it made it harder on the germs.

Look... I don't care if u quake guys can't or won't furball I just want you to admit that the only realistic flying or "strat" in AH is the melee or furball and that everything else is ..... quake.
lazs