Author Topic: My opinions on the tech companies  (Read 506 times)

Offline bloom25

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My opinions on the tech companies
« on: April 06, 2002, 12:36:08 AM »
Those of you who are familiar with what I usually post might be a little disappointed with what you are about to read here.  After you read this post you aren't going to know how to squeeze any more FPS out of your system when over that smoking field. :)  I just felt like putting into writing what I've been thinking about for the past few months.  Please keep in mind that all of what you are about to read are simply my opinions.  I'm not directly affiliated with any of the companies I'm about to comment on.

I'd like to hear what the rest of you are thinking.  Please feel free to post whatever you'd like.  (In other words, call me a moron if you really want to... hehe. )

This post definately isn't going to win any literary awards either.  (It seems like the better I get in math, the worse my spelling and grammar get. :D )

Since I don't have the time to really spend writing this that I'd like to have, I'm just going to list a bunch of companies and what I think of what they seem to be doing recently.
_____________________________ ______________________

  First off, Hewlett Packard:  I'm sure a lot of you know that the big HP-Compaq deal went through.  (Or maybe you don't, it sure hasn't got the media coverage it deserves.)  Back when the company was still run by Hewlett and Packard, HP was known for innovation, risk taking, and quality products.  If you saw the HP logo on a piece of equipment you knew it was good.  HP hired the best and brightest engineers around and gave them the freedom and financial support to do as they saw fit.  The engineers had access to the top levels of the company itself.  It was a company based on engineering and run by engineers.  Late in his career Hewlett gave a speech in which he outlined his guidelines for how the company should operate.  Those simple guidelines are familiar to many in engineering and business and were widely copied by nearly every other tech company.  HP broke all records for growth and profits rose every year.
  How things have changed.  HP today is just a shadow of the company it used to be.  Innovation doesn't even seem to be in their vocabulary anymore.  Instead of "invent", their slogan ought to say "copy as cheaply as we can, and if we can't copy it, buy it cheap and put our name on it."  About the only profitable division left at HP is their printer division.  That's the one part of HP that is allowed to continue to do what H & P founded the company to do.  HP computers and peripherals, which used to be a cut above the rest in both quality and performance (and price ;) ), are now IMO the computer equivilant of the Yugo.  Many of you probably don't know that HP CD burners are not made by HP, but contracted to the lowest bidder.  (Sony made a bunch of them.)  Much of HP's printer division is based here in Corvallis, Oregon.  None of the engineers or managers that I know who work at HP wanted the merger to go through.  The sons of both Hewlett and Packard also opposed the merger.  That tells you something.  An informal survey of HP employees showed that 2/3 to 3/4 of them opposed the merger.  I'd say the true percentage was closer to 90%.  I've had 4 former HP employees (and one HP spinoff company employee) as instructors for classes I've taken here at OSU.  Many of them have told me that "when H & P still roamed the halls" this never would have happened.  A few of them left the company because they didn't like the way things were going.  Any company that doesn't take advise from it's own employees seriously and kicks the son of their own founder off it's board is bound for disaster.  The negative press that HP is going to get when they lay off 10 - 20 THOUSAND employees is not going to help them in their cause either.  I personally would not be surprised if within 5 years it will be HP's turn in bankruptcy court.  That's truely a shame.

Intel:  I know of very few companies that push their engineers to innovate quite as hard as Intel does.  Nearly everyone that works at Intel that I've spoken to over the years love (loved) working there.  (Maybe too hard, a couple of the former Intel engineers I've spoken to left the company because they worked themselves to the point of burn out.)  Intel knows their market like no other company and spends the time and money in testing and design to make sure their products work right when they are released to the public.  Even though I personally feel the P4 suffers from some design faults, I would be a fool to say that Intel won't turn a profit from it.  Intel engineers definately didn't just set out to improve upon the already excellent P6 (Pentium Pro, P2, P3, Celeron) design, which certainly would have been the easy and obvious way to go about designing a new processor.  Although the original Pentium 4 design doesn't quite live up to my expectations, it's largely because it would have just been too expensive to produce as the engineers originally designed it.  Intel made some pretty serious cost minimizing cuts, which unfortunately crippled the performance of the original "Willamette" P4 core.  The new "Northwood" core is improved and it's performance is finally what I'd expect from a CPU carrying the Intel name.  As the cost of producing the P4 contines to drop (and it will take a BIG drop in the next month or so with the move to 12" [300mm] wafers ), engineers can finally implement the P4 as it was originally designed (mainly they need fix the anemic floating point unit the current design is stuck with, if they can learn anything from the Athlon design it should be that a powerful FPU makes a big difference).  Intel also spends a LOT of money on research and development and definately isn't afraid to take risks.  (Hi AKDejaVu :) )  In many ways, Intel has become the company HP used to be.  (Not that all their new projects bear fruit, case and point being the current Itanium design, but hey, the "new" HP did much of the design on that one... :D )  It doesn't hurt that Intel's production facilities are at least a full generation ahead of anyone else.  If Intel has a weakness it's their strongarm tactics in trying to maintain their monopoly.  If they aren't careful they are going to end up like Rambus, all alone with no friends left to play with.

AMD:  Talk about a complete turnaround virtually overnight.  AMD went from an also-ran in the tech industry to a real innovator that Intel now has to take seriously.  In the past AMD was known for their flash memory products, and for their second rate copies of Intel processors.  AMD was known for delays and quality problems.  That's all changed now.  The K6 was AMDs first big success.  While it didn't quite live up to expectations in performance and suffered from a real lack of a decent chipset and quality motherboard to support it, it opened the door to economical PCs for virtually everyone.  Intel realized they were losing money and for the first time was forced to follow rather than lead by "going cheap" with the Celeron.  (Many of you know that Celerons were virtually identical to the Pentium 2, and actually cost nearly as much to produce.)  With the release of the Athlon 3 years ago now AMD undoubtedly took the lead for the first time in performance AS WELL AS price.  What ensued was a virtual war between AMD and Intel for bragging rights as to who had the fastest x86 CPU in the world.  PC sales skyrocketed, while the Mac lost even more market share.  For the first time AMD was widely recognized by at least those who were knowledgable in the area as a real contender in the PC CPU market.  AMD hasn't let up yet, and has a processor design due at the end of this year that is every bit as revolutionary as the P4, codenamed "SledgeHammer and ClawHammer."  
  It's hard to predict whether or not AMD will be able to actually turn a profit on it's CPUs.  The one area in which they are truely lacking is production capabilities.  AMD sells their Athlons for too little money, compared to the performance they offer.  I often wonder if this hurts, rather than helps them.  Many people still associate AMD with inferior quality products, and the fact that their CPUs are cheaper than equivilant Intel products may actually not be helping them win over users.  Their fab plants are also currently not nearly as efficient as Intel.  Within the next couple months AMD will be taking a big risk and moving production to using a somewhat unproven SOI techinque.  If it works as designed they will be able to produce extremely fast processors and make inroads into the very high profit workstation market.  If it fails AMD's already high costs of production will rise even higher and "Hammer" may be doomed from the start to failure.  I personally feel they will succeed, but I do think it's likely that AMD is being too optimistic with its November-December projections for volume production of Hammer.  I'm not honestly expecting it until the end of the first quarter next year.

Offline bloom25

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« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2002, 12:37:07 AM »
(Had to break this into two posts, it seems it was too long. :D )

nVidia: "Wow!"  What else can you say about this company.  I don't know anything about the internal workings of this company, but from an outsider's point of view it's hard not to be impressed with how far they've pushed the boundries of PC graphics since their founding less than 10 years ago.  In a year in which tech companies were generally losing stock value, nVidia ended up being one of the top stocks of the year.  (One day, early last year, I ended up giving a ride to a couple who had broken down 60 miles from home.  Chatting with him I found out he invested in Rambus stock and had made quite a bit of money.  I told him to forget Rambus and to look into nVidia.  This was right before the GF 3 and nForce were announced.  I'd forgotten about this for the most part, but right at Christmas time I got an e-mail from this couple thanking me so much for the tip. I guess I was right, nVidia's stock tripled in value and they were quite happy... )  It looks like in the short time they will continue to push the boundries in the graphics business while trying to make inroads into the very competitive chipset business.
  If nVidia has any real weaknesses right now, it's that they may be growing too rapidly.  They also seem to be driving all their competitors out of business.  3dFx and S3 are history now.  Matrox is no longer a player in the home computer graphics card business and ATI is struggling to hold on.

ATI:  ATI is kind of like the AMD of the graphics card business.  Currently times are tough for ATI, but they have a big contract on the Nintendo Gamecube, and their Radeon line has been their most successful products to date.  For a few short weeks they even managed to catch and surpass nVidia as the performance champ with their Radeon 8500.  Although they've lost the crown to the amazing GeForce 4, they don't seem to worried.  They are rumored to have an equivalent (and possibly superior) product very close to release.
  If they are lacking in any respect it's their poor (but better than in the past) driver support for their products.  ATI cards from a hardware perspective are excellent, with top notch image quality.  From a support and driver standpoint I've found them to be very very poor.  I personally would like to recommend their products, but I just can't do it until they resolve this.  nVidia's drivers, while certainly not perfect, are universal to nearly their entire product line and are constantly being updated.
  I think ATI may well be the sleeper company of the year.  I have the feeling they are about to release something big very soon...

_____________________________ ______________________

I'm going to have to stop here for tonight, but hopefully you enjoyed reading this.  Within the next few days I think I'll add my opinions on some other companies.  (Microsoft, Sun, and maybe a couple others. :) )

Offline Animal

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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2002, 02:07:21 AM »
Very nice read, thank you bloom, you are one of the only posters i enjoy reading every thread from.

i share your view in most parts of the report, specially about nvidia and amd.

as for h&p, that is what happens when buzzword-sputing-$5.5ksuits take control from the hands of innovative engeneers :rolleyes:

they are only making a profit out of pc novates who buy based on brand popularity rather than quality. but as the consumer gets more aware and involved in the business (after your second computer, you already know what is quality and what is not. we are entering about the third generation of PC buying booms, wich means many times more americans get informed on what is good quality) they will stop buying h&p products, and they will either have to innovate really well, or joining the bankrupt club as you predicted.

about the intel vs amd war: i just love it. two excellent companies go after each other with innovation other than funniest goofy masccot to conquer the hearts (and pockets) from the masses. with each release they introduce at least something new and cutting edge; that even if not work as advertized, still push the other to improve on the technology, and that is good news to us, because it will bring some great advancement in computer technology!
you can measure their advancements and achievements by counting the side companies growing greatly by making products for these companies; heatsink makers, fan makers, powersupply makers, these guys are making quite a buck and are also improving the methods of cooling and power control, thus paving the way for intel and amd to push the envelope releasing products with greater speed yet reliable and stable performance. its a perfect economic simbiosis. we have even seen the cpu giants making deals with these growing companies, thus also american ecomy ALWAYS benefits for advancements in technology.

as for the technical advancements, the more they widen the pipe and let more bandwidth unleash, the closer we get to the greatest scientific advancements of the new millenium (nanotechnology, space industry, medicine research, and even warfare)

keep on it intel and amd. and i wish each of your new releases is better than the others.

as for nvidia and ati, i cant put this better than you did.

and if i may; here is one thing i'm really enjoying reading about its proggress, network technology. bluetooth brought some great advancement in wireless networking, and though its potential impact is sadly not much publisiced. wireless connection between your luxury Rolex watch with your high performance PDAs with satellite broadband connection and gps, can adjust perfectly to the exact time in your specific timezone brought to you by our atomic clocks. also, small implants that measure your level of energy, nutrition, fitness, etc, and wirelessly send the information to your computer, wich then determines wich workout sequence and diet you should follow (all of this approved by the best authorities in the medical science field). and lets not get started on wireless connection between ALL your peripherals? all cords except power cords will dissapear thanks to wireless technology. when wireless got digital, it marked the start of a new era.

trust me, the world will be better when you have cheap access to dozens of megabites per second on a wireless connection, and all your peripherals will comunicate with each other. so make yourself a favor and support wireless technology, will ya? ;)

also we must ask some ethical questions. now that the world goes wireless and small, there will be some big moral privacy issues. i sure as hell dont want a GPS adapter implanted on my skull. that makes me feel like cattle, wich is what you would be if you had no privacy.


well, i'm off to enjoy my new Geforce 4, wich by the way, the technical demos have almost-shrek graphics and you run them in real time at a respectable resolution and framerate.
too bad they are demos.

-animal

ps. no mentioning microsoft, please. leave that for another thread if you feel like it ;)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2002, 03:03:56 AM by Animal »

Offline Animal

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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2002, 02:13:22 AM »
Hey bloom, you should make a post like this at the start of every month.
it would seriously put the browsers in the know of  whats happening, wich ultimately benefits Hitechcreations in many ways, as when their customers are keeping up with the technology, they more options the have for broadening their graphicals and physics engines and other aspects of aces high
« Last Edit: April 06, 2002, 03:05:13 AM by Animal »

Offline jagjeff

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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2002, 08:10:41 AM »
Thanks for the post bloom.It's a cryin shame what has happened at HP. Companies need to quit relying on useless overpaid management types to run things and let the people that know how to build a quality product do a good job without interference.IMHO current management styles and principles are ruining the very fabric of corporate america and are turning once great companies into fodder at an alarming rate.:(

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2002, 10:01:58 AM »
Its not always management practices that are at fault.  One problem HP ran into with its computer components was that they tried to scale up too high to the point that volume became the number one concern.

When their CDROMS/CDR were high end, people paid for the best CD burner on the market, bundled with some of the best software on the market.  The problem is... these sold at twice what everyone else was selling.  The consumer prefered cheaper vs better in every way... HP just decided to accomodate them in order to increase volume.  I watched Thrustmaster go through exactly the same problems before being sold to Guillemont.  Volume became the concern... shaving the manufacturing penny.  Oh.. the crap they made during that period.

As far as Intel and AMD goes... Intel kicks bellybutton and AMD licks ass.  That is my honest unbiased oppinion.:D

AKDejaVu
Intel Employee (Components Research)

Offline Pollock

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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2002, 10:49:02 AM »
Thanks for the info Bloom.  As all of your posts prove helpful and informative.

Offline bloom25

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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2002, 08:50:32 PM »
Nah Animal, I've never done anything with wireless peripherals ... oh wait, that's my senior project. :D  (Due May 7th, what am I doing  posting here when I've still got CRC error correction, a pattern detector/generator, and clock recovery unit to either design, simulate, or implement.)  Basically what our project does at this point is to transfer 16 bit stereo 48 KHz FS (sampling rate), which is slightly better than CD quality (same as a DAT tape), over a currently infrared link.  It works, but there are some clock drift issues to be ironed out.  Sound quality is stunning, it's much better than I was expecting.  5 Hz to 25 kHz frequency reponse (-3dB range).  We cut no corners on the amplifier circuitry and equiped it with the largest output capacitors (and coupling, but I doubt many of you know what I mean by that) practical.  We almost blew a subwoofer the first time we tested it.) Unfortunatlely 802.11 or Bluetooth transceivers were just too expensive for our group to afford, so we went with infrared.  (It requires 6.144 Mb/s bandwidth right now.  We don't compress the audio at all.  802.11b would be good enough, it offers 11Mb/s max.)  Range is better than what you might expect.  I don't see a problem with 5 meters (we've got it up to around 3m already) and we've also developed a small little repeater that extends range and removes line of sight restrictions.  (Funny thing is it also repeats TV remote signals and PDA (Pocket PC, Palm) IRDA signals.  I can now change my TV channel from another room ... which is totally useless but so much fun to surprise friends with by making the TV go nuts when you leave the room. :D )  It doesn't look like much when you see it, but I've spent a lot of time on it.  It's a group project, but I've done 99.9% of the design and assembly.  The darn thing sits 3 feet from my bed, right next to the soldering station, refrigerator, and computer with AH.  What else do I need? ;)

_____________________________ _

AKDejaVu, I think you told me you worked mainly with low-K dielectric materials.  Is that correct?  I hope you succeed in making a breakthrough.  I spent almost 12 hours one night (by that time it was actually morning :( ) reducing parasitic capacitances in an op amp (amplifier chip) design by rerouting metal layers and moving transistors around.  A breakthrough in that area would certainly help, and is of the highest priority now as the number of metal layers continues to rise.  BTW:  If you know, how many metal layers are allowed on your new .13 process?  I wouldn't think that would be any trade secret.  With 40+ million transistors on a chip, I'm sure it's at least 6.  LOL, I suppose if you really mess up and make a high K oxide, engineers can always use that for gate oxide.   The gate oxide layer is getting so thin that there are some potenial issues with tunneling, and a higher K oxide would allow steps to be taken to possibly reduce this.  I suppose GaAs would also work (no oxide at all - MESFET - i.e. schotkey barrier).  I'm totally clueless as to Si Ge technology, but that may also provide a solution to getting higher speeds.
  On kind of an off-topic note, I found some old tunnel diodes in a box from 41 years ago.  (GE 1N2941 if I remember right.  The business card inclosed had a phone number of Granite 5000 something... )  Unfortunately it appears the carriers may have recombined in them as they no longer work correctly.  I was kind of disappointed when I found that out.
  For those of you who don't know what a tunnel diode (also called an Esaki diode) is, don't feel bad.  It was developed by a genious at Sony in the late 1950s (Esaki) and was kind of like the "IT" (which turned out to be a scooter  :rolleyes: ) of it's day.  A lot of people thought it would revolutionize electronic circuit design.  In some way they were right, but unfortunately they were somewhat expensive to make and very difficult for engineers to use.  (They actually have a region of operation where they break Ohms law and voltage across them actually decreases as current increases!  That meant they could switch VERY quickly between 2 stable states.)  They were demonstated to make very high frequency radio receivers and clock generators.  Can you imagine 900 Mhz to 5 Ghz receivers in 1965?!?  We are just getting there today.  Esaki won the Nobel prize and for a time it looked like the tunnel diode would be like the transistor in implications.  For some reason (which I can't fully understand), tunnel diode kind of faded away and production ended at all but one tiny manufacturer by 1985.  Only about 1000 or so are made a year.  They were used mostly for radar and microwave receiving equipment.  (Some oscilliscopes used them as well.)  As it turns out we may have given up on them too early.  They mostly came too early to see the advent of the digital IC.  There's been some recent work in using tunnel diode arrays as memory cells.  They are ideally suited for the job, as they can switch between states as quickly as even the fastest transitors available today, and only one of them is required per bit, versus 8+ transistors.  This makes them equally as fast, but much less space consuming on a chip.   (5 Ghz video memory sound good on that GF 4 Animal? :D )  Who knows, maybe they will make a comeback...

_____________________________ ______________________

You mentioned Bluetooth and wireless networking as well Animal.  There's some interesting new technologies that are very close to release.  802.11a (yes a, not b) could be available within a few years.  802.11a offers a 54 Mb/s data rate.   That's a big jump from the already high 11 Mb/s 802.11b data rate.  The drawback is that while 802.11b works at around 2.4 Ghz (it actually hops between frequencies in that range), 802.11a requires around 5 Ghz.  That really complicates circuit design (mainly layout and shielding issues) and current prototype equipment is VERY VERY expensive.  (Very, very, cool too.  :cool: )  I wouldn't mind it at all having the equivilant of about 35 DSL or cable modem speed lines being wireless.
  An engineer for National semiconductor told me a few weeks ago that  they may have found a way to do 54 Mb/s with just 2.4 Ghz (i.e. use existing 802.11b transmiter/receivers).  I can't tell you much more than that, as he didn't know how exactly they were doing it, but it's called 802.11g right now.
  Bluetooth, I did some extensive techincal research on it for our project.  I don't think you'll see it in much but a few low speed devices.  It is just too unstable and slow to really catch on as it is.  (Transmitters from one company can't even talk to receivers from another, that's not very good.)

Offline bloom25

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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2002, 09:13:18 PM »
What do you guys think of Rambus?  Not so much the ram (which is actually a pretty interesting idea), but the company itself.  I'm pretty sure no one involved in managing that company ever had to take a business ethics class.  Intel gave them their chance, but now is supposed to be dropping them by the end of the year.  It looks like they might have one last product that we might see, PC1066 ram paired with Intel's new i850 revision.  Intel is planning on boosting the P4 FSB up to 133 Mhz QDR (533 Mhz equiv) from 100 Mhz QDR (400 Mhz equivilant) on future P4 speed grades.  (Which probably means that as with most things Intel, current P4 Northwood users will not be able to upgrade past 2.4 Ghz. :( )

With regards to Rambus themselves, the whole notion of an intelectual property company doesn't sit well with me.  Basically what Rambus tries to do is predict what other memory companies will do and patent the idea before they can.  As it seems right now, it seems they just falsify records to claim credit for coming up with ideas that they learned of at seminars.   I've looked at some of their patents, some of it is just flat out obvious stuff that a freshman EE student would be familiar with from their first digital logic courses.  (Some of their ideas are pretty good though, but they charge high royalities if you use them.)  Their claim on SDRAM patents was just absurd IMO.  Even if they did actually did come up with what they say they did when they did, patent law states an idea must be "unobvious."  To me, the entire design of basic SDRAM is pretty obvious.

What do you guys think about the notion of an "intellectual property" company?

Offline Tumor

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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2002, 07:00:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bloom25
What do you guys think about the notion of an "intellectual property" company?


  Metallica "used" to be one of my favorite bands lol.  Actually, I don't think the term "intellectual property" will live a long life.  Intellectual or not, whoever has the money to pay the lawyers will own whatever they want to own anyway... doesn't make a little guy like me a bit of difference.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2002, 10:09:56 AM »
I'm not sure how many metal stacks the .13um process has right now bloom... I think its 6.  To be honest, I work so far beyond it that its hard to remember where 6 metal layers stop (which process) and 7 start.  Its complicated by the fact that we seldomely use the term .13um process at work.

I'm not working that much with Low-K dielectric any more.  The currently available spin-on aplications had horrible mechanical properties (were just too weak).  There's some stuff on the horizon that reportedly shows a 5x improvement in mechanical properties, but that has yet to be demonstrated to me.

I currently work on a methodology to reduce the size of VIA holes after lithography.  Its not anything that can be used for a process, but it is a way to cheat and give etch some experience with super small space etch.  Its kinda cool... but too many people expect it to happen by tomorrow.

As far as Rambus goes... they're one of the most absurd companies I've ever seen.  The thing I can't quite figure out is just how much of what we are seeing is a result of people attempting to vilainize legitimate claims... or actuall outrageous claims.  It seems that the court's decisions would have come down much sooner if they were as cut and dry as hitatchi and hyudai's lawyers claim they were.  And remember... they aren't just an intelectual property company... they do have a design that they license.  They are more like IBM in that matter.  The thing is... they are much smaller and very few people fight back against IBM.

There are actually companies that go through pattent applications and try to file "twists" on pattents (totally unethical practice) and then exist solely to file lawsuits based on those patents.  I don't know if they are still making money... but there was big dollars in it about 5 years ago.  I get the feeling that will go the way of junk bonds in the near future... to the point of someone doing jail time for fraud.

AKDejaVu

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2002, 12:15:31 PM »
Oh... and on a sidenote... I don't recall seeing that Intel had any plans to drop RDRAM support anytime in the near future.

AKDejaVu

Offline Camel

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2002, 12:32:49 PM »
Great reading Bloom,

I agree with Deja, I think Rambus is here to stay awhile. It will receive good compition from Duel Channel DDR solutions. Dual Channel PC2100 will give you 4.2gb bandwidth matching the upcoming Rambus PC1066. Duel channel PC 2700 will beat that.

Offline Animal

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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2002, 02:39:44 PM »
Great thread so far. As for RAMBUS, they are not going anywhere. Interesting concept at first, but they didnt deliver. Instead, they were too worried in making a buck any way they could, including court.

Hey bloom25, checkthis review wich you might enjoy.
As for bluetooth, I think they are coming with a new release (Bluetooth II I assume) that will be much improved. Transmitters and receivers from different brands will be 100% compatible, it will be much more stable, and have longer range, etc, etc. I cant talk to you about the technical details, I saw this on TechTV. Its a good channel for peripheral news and to see them in action, but they dont go much into detail on the technology behind it (90% of the viewers would get lost anyways)